7 ms·
In 6 violent encounters, evidence contradicts immigration officials' narratives
- arxari 9mo ago[flagged]
- trhway 9mo ago>to "drive drive" when the officer is positioned in front of a car when you're in front of of the car at some distance like the shooting ICE in the video and the car is making a turn in front of you, you clearly see that the car is moving away from you to the side, not moving toward you.
- dylan604 9mo ago> but not her wife telling her to "drive drive" when the officer is positioned in front of a car where was everyone standing when she said to drive? could she see the ICE agent in front of the car? also, you can tell someone to "drive drive", but that does not mean to "drive over whoever is in front of you". reads to me like you are as guilty of reading more into it as you claim they are for not quoting 'drive drive'.
- pstuart 9mo agoIf you think nuance is missing, you could add the nuance of agents swarming her vehicle with a high likelihood of violently extracting her from the car and detaining her. This is the upgraded version of "you may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride" -- where that ride may take you halfway across the country and be detained incommunicado for many days before being ejected out of the holding center and on your own to get home. This is well-documented and a legitimate concern of any legal protester being illegally detained.
- rationalist 9mo agoEdit: Why the disagreement? I don't like it that people were killed, same as you all I hope. > violently extracting her from the car Isn't that what always happens when someone doesn't comply when told to exit their vehicle? Since when has not complying with an officer on the street resulted them in saying, 'Oh, okay, carry on what you were doing'? I imagine if I parked perpendicular on a road and danced while honking my horn (timestamp 39 seconds in video below), then not complying when the police told me to exit the vehicle, the police would try to extract me by force as well. https://youtube.com/watch?v=wrlUUPZPpaY https://youtube.com/watch?v=wrlUUPZPpaY I always thought a protest was chanting with signs, but it seems like times have changed. I haven't seen videos and of officers going up to people holding signs (who are not trying to be physical with the officers) and initiating physical contact. I haven't seen video of the officers walk up to Alex Pretti and tackle him for no reason. I have seen a video of him on a prior day kicking and breaking the light off a vehicle: https://x.com/RyanSaavedra/status/2016611647553413126 https://x.com/RyanSaavedra/status/2016611647553413126 Is the constant blaring of whistles at Alex Pretti's shooting, to alert people, or make it more likely for the officers to make a mistake? I'm not a fan of anything that's going on, and it appears that people are trying to make things worse, not better. Why?
- pstuart 9mo agoAs far as her vehicle was concerned, I've seen elsewhere that she had been parked earlier and had pulled out but was letting other vehicles go through first, waving them on. Not complying with a masked men with guns who gave conflicting info (leave now/get out of the car) who were going to mess her up as much as they could? Really? She was trying to leave. You should watch the video where Alex Pretti tries to protect and aid a women who was pepper sprayed by ICE officials approaching them, and then tackled and shot multiple times, and then more for good measure. > I'm not a fan of anything that's going on, and it appears that people are trying to make things worse, not better. Why? If you are a rationalist, you should be taking in all possible information and be prepared to change your mind as compelling evidence is presednted. Let's work backwards from the situation: Why is ICE in Minnesota in the first place? Ostensibly because of financial fraud (not their area of interest), and more so, as a show of strength and intimidation. Steven Miller has publicly stated that ICE has zero accountability and freedom to act as they see fit. 1st Amendment and 4th Amendments are doormats to these people. And with Alex Pretti, they now declare that 2A is null and void too. So your position is kneel and comply regardless of why? Edit: I didn't downvote you because I wanted to answer with dialog instead. You send some very mixed messages about not liking what's happening but also blaming the victims for their fate.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- wat10000 9mo agoJonathan Ross: shoots a woman three times, with the killing shot to the head fired from the side of the vehicle after the danger had passed, if there ever was any danger to begin with. News: holy shit this guy murdered that lady on camera. You: they are slandering ICE. Make it make sense.
- FrankenDino 9mo agohttps://www.allsides.com/blog/killing-alex-pretti-different-truths-and-underreported-facts/ https://www.allsides.com/blog/killing-alex-pretti-different-...
- lazyeye 9mo ago[flagged]
- 023984398 9mo agobad take
- lazyeye 9mo agoAccurate take
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- 023984398 9mo agoCiting an AI tweet hardly screams accurate. They're killing American citizens with immunity. Enjoy the taste of boot leather in your mouth dude.
- lazyeye 9mo ago[flagged]
- cwillu 9mo agoAccording to your own numbers, Clinton and Obama managed to to deport 15 million people, and somehow they managed to do it without executing any citizens in the street.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- lazyeye 9mo agoI dont think you read the original grandparent comment. There absolutely reasons why the chaos is happening now and not under Clinton or Obama.
- chasil 9mo agoNonviolent crowd control does not seem to be a core competence of these federal forces. They should augment deployed enforcement with those who have such expertise.
- dylan604 9mo agoWho? They are complaining that sanctuary cities' local police are not cooperating. Who else are you suggesting has the necessary expertise?
- SR2Z 9mo agoPerhaps if they cannot carry out their goals without hurting people, the answer is "take a step back" and not "hurt people."
- tstrimple 9mo agoThis is beyond naive at this point. The objective is to hurt people. Republican voters have repeatedly explicitly asked for it. There's a reason they flocked to Trump. Cruelty is the point. It's astounding the number of people still so credulous wrt what is happening in this country. You have "Christian" preachers talking about empathy being a sin for fucks sake. Like how can people maintain this sort of ignorance into 2026? And I don't mean this towards you necessarily. I get some people are still entertaining folks who will never participate in a conversation in good faith because it might influence ignorant observers who stumble across the conversation. But does that ever actually play out? How much time is wasted on people of obvious bad faith? How much time has been wasted on the Shapiros, the Kirks, the Tuckers of the world? The random HN commenter who drops obvious bullshit before disappearing to never be heard from again? You cannot out earnest people flooding the zone with bullshit.
- deepsun 9mo agoWell, if local police is not cooperating then it's as designed by the constitution (states have the authority to police), to not give federal government powers to make the country a police state. Feature, not a bug. Federals should discuss and persuade the state and their police.
- trhway 9mo agofish rots from the head. Violence, lies and grift. The very head is convicted grifter who is openly using his position for personal enrichment. Right next - Noem - trigger happy dog shooter, and why suddenly so many DHS ads with her ? : https://www.propublica.org/article/kristi-noem-dhs-ad-campaign-strategy-group https://www.propublica.org/article/kristi-noem-dhs-ad-campai... "Firm Tied to Kristi Noem Secretly Got Money From $220 Million DHS Ad Contracts The company is run by the husband of Noem’s chief DHS spokesperson and has personal and business ties to Noem and her aides. DHS invoked the “emergency” at the border to skirt competitive bidding rules for the taxpayer-funded campaign." and that cherry on top: "DHS, White House shared white nationalist song in ICE recruitment posts" https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/white-nationalist-song-ice-recruitment-posts/ https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/white-national...
- cucumber3732842 9mo agoThis was not a particularly good condition fish to begin with....
- tstrimple 9mo agoNaw. The rot has been here since the country was founded. It has never been adequately treated. We had our best opportunity after the civil war, but decided to throw away the antibiotics and just live with it. It took a long time, but now seems terminal.
- metalcrow 9mo ago> officials rushed to defend immigration officers without waiting for key facts to emerge – in what former immigration officials called a clear break with past practice for federal agencies Without obscuring how bad is it, I don't believe there was ever a time when officials _didn't_ rush to defend federal officers without waiting for key facts to emerge. The us government has constantly loved to say that no one working for them has done anything wrong.
- Sabinus 9mo agoCalling American citizens domestic terrorists 30 mins after they were shot dead by agents of the President's shiny new initiative is a bit of an escalation on the generic government face-saving responses. The rhetoric is escalating and dangerous.
- guerrilla 9mo agoIs it? I really don't think so. You don't remember the whole "superpredator" thing? Every time a black dude is shot, they'll start talking about how he must have been some kinda criminal. People of color have been suffering this shit forever. Sure, the Internet makes things faster, but the policies are the same.
- deinonychus 9mo agoin that case, it seems like as good of a time to stop as ever
- guerrilla 9mo agoIt's seemed like a good time for quite a while...
- NoGravitas 9mo agoThe best time to stop is 250 years ago. The next best time to stop is now.
- TacticalCoder 9mo ago[flagged]
- 023984398 9mo agoThe person who murdered Laken Riley was not acting on behalf of the government. That is the difference. Do you see the difference?
- ModernMech 9mo agoAlso that Laken Riley is the only example ever provided for why immigrant violence is such an issue reveals it’s actually not an issue.
- doobiedowner 9mo agoIf that’s your rationale for soft pedaling shock troops attacking American citizens, yes deeply flawed.
- tzs 9mo ago> Why are such comment downvoted? Why are you inferring that that comment was downvoted for the 13% of it that you quoted rather than something in the other 87%?
- etchalon 9mo agoThere is plenty of concern for victims of crime. That's why there are jails, and people in the jails.
- cardamomo 9mo agoYou're employing some polarizing language yourself. Calling people "illegals" because of their immigration status demeans them. Beyond that, this language is often used to justify illegal restrictions of their civil rights. Immigrants, regardless of their legal status, have civil rights and human rights.
- hubber 9mo ago
- SilverElfin 9mo agoIt’s hilarious seeing the kind of narratives the right is coming up with to avoid admitting the obvious truth which is on video from multiple angles. I’m now seeing people say things like “you can’t carry a gun at protests” (even though there are numerous photos of people openly carrying guns at right wing protests), or “here’s a different video showing Pretty was an agitator” (as if that excuses the execution), or “wait for bodycam footage” (even though there is a video of them removing his gun and later putting him on his knees). I will say though that I am also a bit scared. When government officials push a blatantly false narrative, that they know is a lie, and their supporting voters completely accept that version of reality over what they can see with their eyes, it suggests that those same voters would be okay with ANYTHING the administration does.
- Jordan-117 9mo ago"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
- direwolf20 9mo agoI don't think they were made to believe. They always wanted to commit atrocities, and they latch onto any excuse to do them.
- jaybrendansmith 9mo agoYes, this. After watching all the video angles, to have seemingly intelligent people come to some crazy conclusion means they are hopelessly mindfucked. It's really hard to understand how these groupthink spells work, but clearly they do. I think my perspective is so focused on facts that my mind is having trouble bending to the fact that MANY people do not critically think from first principles, about nearly everything. It's troubling to me, making me feel somewhat alienated to at least 40% of the human race.
- scarecrowbob 9mo ago"Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?" It's been this way for a while, though. It's just that the stakes of the things they are willing to tell folks to "2+2=5" about seem to have dropped substantially. It used to be about the goodness of US foreign interventions and, say, "imperial capitalism" in general, and they made plenty of fun propaganda to support it: "Red Dawn" or "First Blood"- quality and fun propaganda. When they started kidnapping folks from our communities who've been peacefully chilling and being community members for decades, it got a lot less abstract, I think. If it helps, understand that it becomes ever easier to get folks to disbelieve the government when they can see it; it's far harder to get the average brunch-enjoyer to care when they are doing a central american coup... much easier to care when they are shooting yt wmn in the streets. Famously, there are plenty of stories in the west about eastern-bloc countries and propaganda, where everyone knows that that the papers don't tell the truth but the truth circulates regardless. So maybe don't worry about the false narratives- worry about the recouperative powers of capital to pull all those radicalized liberals back into the fold instead of using a mass line of organization to force structural changes.
- gafferongames 9mo agoFascism has come to the United States.
- pstuart 9mo agoIt's been here for a long time, it finally has encouragement to show its face.
- hubber 9mo ago[flagged]
- fancy_pantser 9mo agoYeah but now Jon Stewart only does one day a week.
- Herring 9mo ago[flagged]
- cornhole 9mo agoi can’t wait until the gestapo, and the powers that be, revoke my citizenship and send me to a ice detention center so i can make license plates
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- scarecrowbob 9mo agoOne of the pleasant things, though, is that if that kind of thing is on the table you probably have some kind of moral imperative to start doing something about it. Previously I felt like a hyperbolic nerd, and now I have a whole lot of new friends all working on the same stuff. Wheee. Go team. I hate it.
- morkalork 9mo ago>But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes
- scarecrowbob 9mo agoI appreciate that bit of prose. Fortunately it feels very much the other direction, lately- more folks seeing the dangers, more willingness to take the long bet. Fewer folks at brunch. That's a bet some of have been taking for a while, though it's oftent felt dumb, and we haven't needed a great shocking occasion to do it.
- morgengold 9mo ago[flagged]
- oliwarner 9mo agoWhat problems did "Woke" (I'm not sure it's a thing, but whatever) have with the truth? Are we talking about opinionated gender vs biological sex? Or how others shouldn't offend? Trans women sports? If it is, I think these are firmly opinions about inclusion. Asking people to ignore biological sex isn't the same thing as saying he said Greenland when he said Iceland. It's weird that you even think them comparable.
- morgengold 9mo agoYes, for example you named it. I agree, these are completely different things. But what is more or less important for changing political reality, is not obvious. I dont buy such arguments like "it is only language".
- ndsipa_pomu 9mo agoThe worrying thing is that we now know about the lies where there's clear evidence, but we don't know the extent of the illegal torture/brutality where we don't have evidence (e.g. inside the concentration camps used to hold "immigrants").
- _DeadFred_ 9mo agoReminder that the government has recruited heavily from the Bureau of Prisons for these roles. This type of treatment could become ingrained into the Federal system/our society.
- NoGravitas 9mo ago> "They are trying to control a narrative from the very start, and they don't seem to care when they're proven wrong," said David Lapan, who was the DHS press secretary in 2017, during Trump's first administration. That's the key bit. They don't need to be proven right. They don't even need their story to be consistent. > “Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” > ― Jean-Paul Sartre
- _DeadFred_ 9mo agoTrump's border czar Tom Homan: "I'm coming to Boston and I'm bringing hell with me." --Homan in February "Do I expect violence to escalate? Absolutely." -- Tom Homan in March "I actually thought about getting up and throwing that man a beating right there in the middle of the room" -- Homan in July, referring to a D congressman But American citizens exercising their constitutional rights? THEY need to tone down the rhetoric.
- fleroviumna 9mo ago[dead]