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From where I'm standing, the very low wage underclass arrived many years ago. AI and robotics just make it worse. But it is very arrogant to think that it wil

by ilaksh 9mo ago

From where I'm standing, the very low wage underclass arrived many years ago. AI and robotics just make it worse. But it is very arrogant to think that it will be limited to certain types of jobs. Things have never been meritocratic. We have always had extreme inequality. Technology has made things slightly more fair but that is still very unevenly distributed. We _should_ be able to leverage advanced technology to lift everyone up. I am going to point out something uncomfortable: I think that racism, classism, and elitism is extremely prevalent globally and may be one of the biggest impediments to the even distribution of technology benefits. We do need to redesign society. That starts with having a realistic educated respect for human beings in general otherwise it's going to be a bad design. It also necessitates refined and contemporary worldviews that properly integrate technology rather than outdated vague ideologies.

pstuart 9mo ago
Extrapolating from what we have to where AI/Automation is going, it seems like UBI would need to be embraced. The only way that could ever happen would be for all stakeholders to collaborate and map out a transition plan. Considering the current political climate, that is not likely to happen. There are many things about China that I do admire, but their ability to map out and move their country forward as a whole is one thing we'd be well-served to learn from.
expedition32 9mo ago
I don't think CEOs go to the slums much.
legitster 9mo ago
Counterpoint: "Low wage underclass" has described most of humans for all of existence. It is only in very recent history that we have had a large middle class. And while the middle class is slipping, I don't think the message is that we need to "redesign society". Society has been working well recently (on the grand scale) - we just need to tweak some of the settings so that we don't backslide into aristocracy and feudalism.
- ilaksh 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - FloorEgg 9mo ago
    That's not what legitster said at all. You just completely misrepresented their point.
  - legitster 9mo ago
    I am unclear how you got that out of my statement at all. I am arguing that we have made huge leaps of progress that we should not be willing to give up. A good illustration of this is in Hans Rosling's books. We're making unprecedented bounds on metrics that matter - like childhood poverty, disease, illiteracy, hunger, child labor, violent crime, lead usage, etc. Some of these things we are at risk of backsliding on, but for even the poorest person in America the quality of life is so much better today than it was even 50 years ago.
    - ilaksh 9mo ago
      But that isn't nearly good enough, and it's much worse for people in many other countries. And that is largely despite many structural aspects of our society. There have been some improvements to social structures, but almost all quality of life improvements have been from technology gains. The social structures are fundamentally based on elitism and exploitation. The prevailing counterviews seem to be basically 1950s style centralized planning. I'm not saying we should throw the baby out, but we need a more fair, refined, and technologically sound foundational worldview. I don't think we should abandon money or centralize things. But we do need, for example, protocols and/or protocol registries enforced by government for sharing information effectively, such as about energy and resources. We also need the monetary systems to be integrated into truly democratic government in such a way that resources and power are distributed in a sane way.
- OkayPhysicist 9mo ago
  "All of existence" is pretty wildly wrong. "All of civilization" might be a bit more on track. I wouldn't describe hunter-gatherer societies as particularly hierarchical. There may have been individuals in charge, but the concept of a leisure nobility class didn't seem to form until we developed agriculture.

by ilaksh 9mo ago

pstuart 9mo ago

Extrapolating from what we have to where AI/Automation is going, it seems like UBI would need to be embraced. The only way that could ever happen would be for all stakeholders to collaborate and map out a transition plan. Considering the current political climate, that is not likely to happen. There are many things about China that I do admire, but their ability to map out and move their country forward as a whole is one thing we'd be well-served to learn from.

expedition32 9mo ago

I don't think CEOs go to the slums much.

legitster 9mo ago

Counterpoint: "Low wage underclass" has described most of humans for all of existence. It is only in very recent history that we have had a large middle class. And while the middle class is slipping, I don't think the message is that we need to "redesign society". Society has been working well recently (on the grand scale) - we just need to tweak some of the settings so that we don't backslide into aristocracy and feudalism.

ilaksh 9mo ago
[flagged]
- FloorEgg 9mo ago
  That's not what legitster said at all. You just completely misrepresented their point.
- legitster 9mo ago
  I am unclear how you got that out of my statement at all. I am arguing that we have made huge leaps of progress that we should not be willing to give up. A good illustration of this is in Hans Rosling's books. We're making unprecedented bounds on metrics that matter - like childhood poverty, disease, illiteracy, hunger, child labor, violent crime, lead usage, etc. Some of these things we are at risk of backsliding on, but for even the poorest person in America the quality of life is so much better today than it was even 50 years ago.
  - ilaksh 9mo ago
    But that isn't nearly good enough, and it's much worse for people in many other countries. And that is largely despite many structural aspects of our society. There have been some improvements to social structures, but almost all quality of life improvements have been from technology gains. The social structures are fundamentally based on elitism and exploitation. The prevailing counterviews seem to be basically 1950s style centralized planning. I'm not saying we should throw the baby out, but we need a more fair, refined, and technologically sound foundational worldview. I don't think we should abandon money or centralize things. But we do need, for example, protocols and/or protocol registries enforced by government for sharing information effectively, such as about energy and resources. We also need the monetary systems to be integrated into truly democratic government in such a way that resources and power are distributed in a sane way.
OkayPhysicist 9mo ago
"All of existence" is pretty wildly wrong. "All of civilization" might be a bit more on track. I wouldn't describe hunter-gatherer societies as particularly hierarchical. There may have been individuals in charge, but the concept of a leisure nobility class didn't seem to form until we developed agriculture.