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Even if they automate all our current jobs uniquely human experiences will always be valuable to us and will always have demand.

wincy 8mo ago
Sounds like it’s time to become a Michelin Star chef. Or a plumber.
- scottyah 8mo ago
  Seems like entertainers/influencers are doing the best.
  - akoboldfrying 8mo ago
    No doubt the top influencer is doing better than the top plumber, but I'd say the median plumber is streets ahead of the median influencer.
- sramam 8mo ago
  What fraction of the remaining population would be able to pay for these services?
b112 8mo ago
For AI, yes. For AGI? Do you care about uniquely ant experience? Bacteria? Why would AGI care? Which now runs the planet?
- IncreasePosts 8mo ago
  Considering the lengths many people go to help preserve nature and natural areas, yes, I would sayany people care about the uniquely ant experience.
- AlexandrB 8mo ago
  I think it's academic because I suspect we're much further from AGI than anyone thinks. We're especially far from AGI that can act in physical space without human "robots" to carry out its commands.
  - falcor84 8mo ago
    That's an interesting formulation. I'd actually be quite worried about a Manna-like world, where we have AGI and most humans don't have any economic value except as its "remote hands".
- lifetimerubyist 8mo ago
  > Do you care about uniquely ant experience? Bacteria? Ethology? Biology? We have entire fields of science to these things so obviously we care to some extent.
- Mordisquitos 8mo ago
  Why would AGI choose to run the planet?
  - ar_lan 8mo ago
    This is honestly a fantastic question. AGI has no emotions, no drive, anything. Maybe, just maybe, it would want to: * Conserve power as much as possible, to "stay alive". * Optimize for power retention Why would it be further interested in generating capital or governing others, though?
    - b112 8mo ago
      I think you have it, with the governing of power and such. We don't want to rule ants, but we don't want them eating all the food, or infesting our homes. Bad outcomes for humans, don't imply or mean malice. (food can be any resource here)
    - adrianN 8mo ago
      Why would it care to stay alive? The discussion is pretty pointless as we have no knowledge about alien intelligence and there can be no arguments based on hard facts.
      - myrmidon 8mo ago
        Any form of AI unconcerned about its own continued survival would be just be selected against. Evolutionary principles/selection pressure applies just the same to artificial life, and it seems pretty reasonable to assume that drive/selfpreservation would at least be somewhat comparable.
        throwaway77770 8mo ago
        That assumes that AI needs to be like life, though. Consider computers: there's no selection pressure for an ordinary computer to be self-reproducing, or to shock you when you reach for the off button, because it's just a tool. An AI could also be just a tool that you fire up, get its answer, and then shut down. It's true that if some mutation were to create an AI with a survival instinct, and that AI were to get loose, then it would "win" (unless people used tool-AIs to defeat it). But that's not quite the same as saying that AIs would, by default, converge to having a drive for self preservation.
- danaris 8mo ago
  ...Well, why would aliens care, when they take over the planet? Or the Tuatha De Danan come back and decide we've all been very wicked? Because right now, those are just about as likely as AGI taking over.
  - otabdeveloper4 8mo ago
    Probably more likely. There's at least some evidence that aliens and Tuatha De Danann actually exist.
sodapopcan 8mo ago
For those not living terminally online, yes.
falcor84 8mo ago
There's a bit of a circular argument here - even if we human always assign intrinsic value to ourselves and our kin, I don't see a clear argument that human capabilities will have external value to the economy at large.
- AlexandrB 8mo ago
  "The economy" is humans spending money on stuff and services. So if humands always assign intrinsic value to ourselves and our kin...
  - ben_w 8mo ago
    For economic purposes, "the economy" also includes corporations and governments. Corporations and governments have counted amongst their property entities that they did not grant equal rights to, sometimes whom they did not even consider to be people. Humans have been treated in the past much as livestock and guide dogs still are.
  - kadushka 8mo ago
    This will break down when >30% of people are unemployed
- BurningFrog 8mo ago
  "The economy" is entirely driven by human needs. If you "unwind" all the complexities in modern supply chains, there are always human people paying for something they want at the leaf nodes. Take the food and clothing industries as obvious examples. In some AI singularity scenario where all humans are unemployed and dirt poor, does all the food and clothing produced by the automated factories just end up in big piles because we naked and starving people can't afford to buy them?
  - falcor84 8mo ago
    There's nothing definitional about the economy being driven by human need. In a future scenario where there are superintelligent AIs, there's no reason why they wouldn't run their own economy for their own needs, collecting and processing materials to service each other's goals, for example of space exploration.
gdilla 8mo ago
sex with humans - still hard to replicate. for now. sex workers should charge by the second since techbros are so used to that model now.
ramesh31 8mo ago
>Even if they automate all our current jobs uniquely human experiences will always be valuable to us and will always have demand. I call this the Quark principle. On DS9, there are matter replicators that can perfectly recreate any possible drink imaginable instantly. And yet, the people of the station still gather at Quark's and pay him money to pour and mix their drinks from physical bottles. As long as we are human, some things will never go away no matter how advanced the technology becomes.
- TheOtherHobbes 8mo ago
  In Star Trek lore replicated food/drink is always one down on taste/texture from the real thing.

wincy 8mo ago

Sounds like it’s time to become a Michelin Star chef. Or a plumber.

scottyah 8mo ago
Seems like entertainers/influencers are doing the best.
- akoboldfrying 8mo ago
  No doubt the top influencer is doing better than the top plumber, but I'd say the median plumber is streets ahead of the median influencer.
sramam 8mo ago
What fraction of the remaining population would be able to pay for these services?

b112 8mo ago

For AI, yes. For AGI? Do you care about uniquely ant experience? Bacteria? Why would AGI care? Which now runs the planet?

IncreasePosts 8mo ago
Considering the lengths many people go to help preserve nature and natural areas, yes, I would sayany people care about the uniquely ant experience.
AlexandrB 8mo ago
I think it's academic because I suspect we're much further from AGI than anyone thinks. We're especially far from AGI that can act in physical space without human "robots" to carry out its commands.
- falcor84 8mo ago
  That's an interesting formulation. I'd actually be quite worried about a Manna-like world, where we have AGI and most humans don't have any economic value except as its "remote hands".
lifetimerubyist 8mo ago
> Do you care about uniquely ant experience? Bacteria? Ethology? Biology? We have entire fields of science to these things so obviously we care to some extent.
Mordisquitos 8mo ago
Why would AGI choose to run the planet?
- ar_lan 8mo ago
  This is honestly a fantastic question. AGI has no emotions, no drive, anything. Maybe, just maybe, it would want to: * Conserve power as much as possible, to "stay alive". * Optimize for power retention Why would it be further interested in generating capital or governing others, though?
  - b112 8mo ago
    I think you have it, with the governing of power and such. We don't want to rule ants, but we don't want them eating all the food, or infesting our homes. Bad outcomes for humans, don't imply or mean malice. (food can be any resource here)
  - adrianN 8mo ago
    Why would it care to stay alive? The discussion is pretty pointless as we have no knowledge about alien intelligence and there can be no arguments based on hard facts.
    - myrmidon 8mo ago
      Any form of AI unconcerned about its own continued survival would be just be selected against. Evolutionary principles/selection pressure applies just the same to artificial life, and it seems pretty reasonable to assume that drive/selfpreservation would at least be somewhat comparable.
      - throwaway77770 8mo ago
        That assumes that AI needs to be like life, though. Consider computers: there's no selection pressure for an ordinary computer to be self-reproducing, or to shock you when you reach for the off button, because it's just a tool. An AI could also be just a tool that you fire up, get its answer, and then shut down. It's true that if some mutation were to create an AI with a survival instinct, and that AI were to get loose, then it would "win" (unless people used tool-AIs to defeat it). But that's not quite the same as saying that AIs would, by default, converge to having a drive for self preservation.
danaris 8mo ago
...Well, why would aliens care, when they take over the planet? Or the Tuatha De Danan come back and decide we've all been very wicked? Because right now, those are just about as likely as AGI taking over.
- otabdeveloper4 8mo ago
  Probably more likely. There's at least some evidence that aliens and Tuatha De Danann actually exist.

sodapopcan 8mo ago

For those not living terminally online, yes.

falcor84 8mo ago

There's a bit of a circular argument here - even if we human always assign intrinsic value to ourselves and our kin, I don't see a clear argument that human capabilities will have external value to the economy at large.

AlexandrB 8mo ago
"The economy" is humans spending money on stuff and services. So if humands always assign intrinsic value to ourselves and our kin...
- ben_w 8mo ago
  For economic purposes, "the economy" also includes corporations and governments. Corporations and governments have counted amongst their property entities that they did not grant equal rights to, sometimes whom they did not even consider to be people. Humans have been treated in the past much as livestock and guide dogs still are.
- kadushka 8mo ago
  This will break down when >30% of people are unemployed
BurningFrog 8mo ago
"The economy" is entirely driven by human needs. If you "unwind" all the complexities in modern supply chains, there are always human people paying for something they want at the leaf nodes. Take the food and clothing industries as obvious examples. In some AI singularity scenario where all humans are unemployed and dirt poor, does all the food and clothing produced by the automated factories just end up in big piles because we naked and starving people can't afford to buy them?
- falcor84 8mo ago
  There's nothing definitional about the economy being driven by human need. In a future scenario where there are superintelligent AIs, there's no reason why they wouldn't run their own economy for their own needs, collecting and processing materials to service each other's goals, for example of space exploration.

gdilla 8mo ago

sex with humans - still hard to replicate. for now. sex workers should charge by the second since techbros are so used to that model now.

ramesh31 8mo ago

>Even if they automate all our current jobs uniquely human experiences will always be valuable to us and will always have demand. I call this the Quark principle. On DS9, there are matter replicators that can perfectly recreate any possible drink imaginable instantly. And yet, the people of the station still gather at Quark's and pay him money to pour and mix their drinks from physical bottles. As long as we are human, some things will never go away no matter how advanced the technology becomes.

TheOtherHobbes 8mo ago
In Star Trek lore replicated food/drink is always one down on taste/texture from the real thing.