5 ms·

As a regular linux user for the last 20 years, who had used windows for games for about 25 of the last 30 years. When I had gotten a macbook pro for work in a c

As a regular linux user for the last 20 years, who had used windows for games for about 25 of the last 30 years. When I had gotten a macbook pro for work in a company that was all apple there were three things that stood out: The M processors are amazing, the apple hardware is really good, and mac os is absolutely awful. I have no idea how people use mac.

reconnecting 9mo ago
Man, we didn't have this all along. Six years ago everything was stable and solid, but Apple's board of directors seems to have decided that new Mac users can't handle a computer interface anymore and started merging it with mobile OS interfaces. And the result is absolutely terrible.
- steve1977 9mo ago
  They also decided that they have to capture React devs and everything should use a declarative UI, which has brought us the wonderful new Systems Settings.
manuelmoreale 9mo ago
> and mac os is absolutely awful. I have no idea how people use Mac. Not sure about other people, but in my case I spend 99% of the time using software made by 3rd parties so my exposure to the OS is very limited. Latest OS is making life miserable though, compared to all the previous releases.
AdamN 9mo ago
Anything in particular? I get that it takes some tweaking but so does Linux. The biggest thing that you'll probably never get the way you want is window tiling - it's my personal bugaboo with MacOS. Maybe there's a way to get what I want ...
- chezelenkoooo 9mo ago
  There's a couple but nothing I've found at the level of i3 or whatever the hyprland equivalent is.
- ikidd 9mo ago
  Fucking Finder. What a colossal dumpster fire. It drags that entire OS down.
  - juuular 9mo ago
    Better than Windows Explorer
    - morshu9001 9mo ago
      No it's not. It's one of very few things that Windows does better
      - array_key_first 9mo ago
        Windows explorer got significantly better in 11, except for fucking context menus. Also it's incredibly slow and unstable now and frequently crashes, taking the taskbar down with it (???). But, at least it has tabs. Jesus Christ, took long enough.
- AaronM 9mo ago
  For me, the biggest pain point is the way it decides which window to bring to the front. If I minimize a window, and then click on the application in the bar, it won't show the window just minimized, instead it always seems to show the older window. Really annoying when using an app with many windows
  - figers 9mo ago
    right click on the app and select the window you want...
    - vladvasiliu 9mo ago
      right, but if you cmd-tab, it brings up ALL the windows: say you had multiple browser windows open, and only want to go back to the one you just used before (think reading some docs while coding).
- Carrok 9mo ago
  There are an absolute ton of very capable tiling window managers for macOS, posted here frequently. From yabi to aerospace to fully programmable ones like hammerspoon. A quick search will turn up plenty more. I would be shocked if none of them meet your needs.
  - morshu9001 9mo ago
    Shouldn't need to install third party stuff for such a basic feature. One more thing that will possibly break with updates or not play nice with something.
- ecshafer 9mo ago
  Window wiling is a big one for me. I have tried the third party options, and nothing compares to i3.
- lastdong 9mo ago
  “I get that it takes some tweaking (MacOS)” How times have changed, it used to be as intuitive as drinking water.
al_borland 9mo ago
> mac os is absolutely awful. I have no idea how people use mac. I hear this from a lot of people when they get their first Mac. When they get specific about what their issues are, it tends to be that macOS doesn't do a thing how they are used to doing it, which is more of a learning curve issue, or rigid thinking. Apple software can be quite opinionated, those who fight against those opinions tend to have a hard time. This is true of any opinionated software.
- ep103 9mo ago
  MacOs is extraordinarily opinionated about how everything should work and frequently attempt to predict your workflow. Linux/Windows (historically) were straightforawrd, each tool did exactly what it said it would do, and it was up to you to learn how to use the tools available. On linux/windows, if a button was "capture image", it would just capture the image on the screen. On a mac a "capture image" button could do anything from displaying the image on the screen, to saving it in a photos folder, to saving and syncing it to an iCloud account. Whatever the apple PM decided the most common use case was, and god help you if you want to do something different. If you've been in the mac ecosystem for a while, you've grown used to this and don't notice any longer. You may even occasionally express happiness when a function does something unexpected and helpful! If you're coming from anywhere else, its unbelievably painful.
  - al_borland 9mo ago
    I’d frame it slightly differently. With Linux/Windows you’re supplied with a toolbox and from that toolbox you’re expected to cobble together a workflow that works for you and maintain it. I spent a significant amount of time trying to learn Tasks inside of Outlook and come up with a system that would make it remotely useful. I failed repeatedly. They eventually bought Wunderlist and replaced it with that, which still has some rough edges (last I tried) due to the legacy Outlook Tasks integration. Apple, more often than not, is looking to identify a problem and give an opinionated solution on how to handle it. If you’re ok with their solution, great, problem solved. If you’re not, you end up either fighting with the Apple tools or finding a 3rd party toolbox style app that lets you cobble together a workflow. I found just going with the opinionated solution removes a lot of needless stress from my life. There are some places I do go 3rd party, but I reevaluate often to ask if I really need these things and if they’re worth the trouble. It ends up being a question of what my goals are with the computer. Am I looking to work on the operating system and apps to tune them to exactly what I want, or am I just looking for the system to fade into the background so I can do other things. When I was younger, I found tweaking and playing with everything to be a bit of a hobby. These days, I just want to do what I need to get done and move on with my life.
juuular 9mo ago
Windows is such garbage, I can't understand how you think MacOS is worse lol. It's just Unix. Linux is definitely better than both though
- ecshafer 9mo ago
  Windows is absolute garbage, I agree. But the application windows behave normally, maximize when I want them, will take half a screen, quarter screen, etc. with just a quick hotkey. Mac doesn't have that extremely basic functionality without a 3rd party extension, which is absurd. But I don't use windows other than if my work gives me one, I am purely linux otherwise.
  - n8cpdx 9mo ago
    Hover on the green button. Also, Mac has a really robust keyboard shortcut system. Including shortcuts for tiling. https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/tile-app-windows-mchlef287e5d/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/tile-app-windows-mc... https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/create-keyboard-shortcuts-for-apps-mchlp2271/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/create-keyboard-sho...
    - jefb 9mo ago
      Hover on the green button??? I've used a personal and work Mac daily for over a decade. I had no idea. Thanks!
- 3form 9mo ago
  They didn't say they think macOS is worse, though.
kaydub 9mo ago
> I have no idea how people use mac. Meh, it has a terminal. Good enough for me. It's worth putting up with MacOS for the hardware.
8bitsrule 9mo ago
Interesting. My experience over a decade was that (expensive) Apple hardware was unreliable or poorly designed ... from the IIsi to the iMac. One exception: the murdered Power clone was great. The iMac vertical screen-stripe fiasco (affected hundreds of users within the warranty period, before they shut down the forum, then took years to respond to) was capped with a hard-drive fail after a year. My 'never again' still in effect 15 years later. My home-made AMD tower is in its 6th year (running Linux) with no, zero, fails.

reconnecting 9mo ago

Man, we didn't have this all along. Six years ago everything was stable and solid, but Apple's board of directors seems to have decided that new Mac users can't handle a computer interface anymore and started merging it with mobile OS interfaces. And the result is absolutely terrible.

steve1977 9mo ago
They also decided that they have to capture React devs and everything should use a declarative UI, which has brought us the wonderful new Systems Settings.

manuelmoreale 9mo ago

> and mac os is absolutely awful. I have no idea how people use Mac. Not sure about other people, but in my case I spend 99% of the time using software made by 3rd parties so my exposure to the OS is very limited. Latest OS is making life miserable though, compared to all the previous releases.

AdamN 9mo ago

Anything in particular? I get that it takes some tweaking but so does Linux. The biggest thing that you'll probably never get the way you want is window tiling - it's my personal bugaboo with MacOS. Maybe there's a way to get what I want ...

chezelenkoooo 9mo ago
There's a couple but nothing I've found at the level of i3 or whatever the hyprland equivalent is.
ikidd 9mo ago
Fucking Finder. What a colossal dumpster fire. It drags that entire OS down.
- juuular 9mo ago
  Better than Windows Explorer
  - morshu9001 9mo ago
    No it's not. It's one of very few things that Windows does better
    - array_key_first 9mo ago
      Windows explorer got significantly better in 11, except for fucking context menus. Also it's incredibly slow and unstable now and frequently crashes, taking the taskbar down with it (???). But, at least it has tabs. Jesus Christ, took long enough.
AaronM 9mo ago
For me, the biggest pain point is the way it decides which window to bring to the front. If I minimize a window, and then click on the application in the bar, it won't show the window just minimized, instead it always seems to show the older window. Really annoying when using an app with many windows
- figers 9mo ago
  right click on the app and select the window you want...
  - vladvasiliu 9mo ago
    right, but if you cmd-tab, it brings up ALL the windows: say you had multiple browser windows open, and only want to go back to the one you just used before (think reading some docs while coding).
Carrok 9mo ago
There are an absolute ton of very capable tiling window managers for macOS, posted here frequently. From yabi to aerospace to fully programmable ones like hammerspoon. A quick search will turn up plenty more. I would be shocked if none of them meet your needs.
- morshu9001 9mo ago
  Shouldn't need to install third party stuff for such a basic feature. One more thing that will possibly break with updates or not play nice with something.
ecshafer 9mo ago
Window wiling is a big one for me. I have tried the third party options, and nothing compares to i3.
lastdong 9mo ago
“I get that it takes some tweaking (MacOS)” How times have changed, it used to be as intuitive as drinking water.

al_borland 9mo ago

> mac os is absolutely awful. I have no idea how people use mac. I hear this from a lot of people when they get their first Mac. When they get specific about what their issues are, it tends to be that macOS doesn't do a thing how they are used to doing it, which is more of a learning curve issue, or rigid thinking. Apple software can be quite opinionated, those who fight against those opinions tend to have a hard time. This is true of any opinionated software.

ep103 9mo ago
MacOs is extraordinarily opinionated about how everything should work and frequently attempt to predict your workflow. Linux/Windows (historically) were straightforawrd, each tool did exactly what it said it would do, and it was up to you to learn how to use the tools available. On linux/windows, if a button was "capture image", it would just capture the image on the screen. On a mac a "capture image" button could do anything from displaying the image on the screen, to saving it in a photos folder, to saving and syncing it to an iCloud account. Whatever the apple PM decided the most common use case was, and god help you if you want to do something different. If you've been in the mac ecosystem for a while, you've grown used to this and don't notice any longer. You may even occasionally express happiness when a function does something unexpected and helpful! If you're coming from anywhere else, its unbelievably painful.
- al_borland 9mo ago
  I’d frame it slightly differently. With Linux/Windows you’re supplied with a toolbox and from that toolbox you’re expected to cobble together a workflow that works for you and maintain it. I spent a significant amount of time trying to learn Tasks inside of Outlook and come up with a system that would make it remotely useful. I failed repeatedly. They eventually bought Wunderlist and replaced it with that, which still has some rough edges (last I tried) due to the legacy Outlook Tasks integration. Apple, more often than not, is looking to identify a problem and give an opinionated solution on how to handle it. If you’re ok with their solution, great, problem solved. If you’re not, you end up either fighting with the Apple tools or finding a 3rd party toolbox style app that lets you cobble together a workflow. I found just going with the opinionated solution removes a lot of needless stress from my life. There are some places I do go 3rd party, but I reevaluate often to ask if I really need these things and if they’re worth the trouble. It ends up being a question of what my goals are with the computer. Am I looking to work on the operating system and apps to tune them to exactly what I want, or am I just looking for the system to fade into the background so I can do other things. When I was younger, I found tweaking and playing with everything to be a bit of a hobby. These days, I just want to do what I need to get done and move on with my life.

juuular 9mo ago

Windows is such garbage, I can't understand how you think MacOS is worse lol. It's just Unix. Linux is definitely better than both though

ecshafer 9mo ago
Windows is absolute garbage, I agree. But the application windows behave normally, maximize when I want them, will take half a screen, quarter screen, etc. with just a quick hotkey. Mac doesn't have that extremely basic functionality without a 3rd party extension, which is absurd. But I don't use windows other than if my work gives me one, I am purely linux otherwise.
- n8cpdx 9mo ago
  Hover on the green button. Also, Mac has a really robust keyboard shortcut system. Including shortcuts for tiling. https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/tile-app-windows-mchlef287e5d/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/tile-app-windows-mc... https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/create-keyboard-shortcuts-for-apps-mchlp2271/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/create-keyboard-sho...
  - jefb 9mo ago
    Hover on the green button??? I've used a personal and work Mac daily for over a decade. I had no idea. Thanks!
3form 9mo ago
They didn't say they think macOS is worse, though.

kaydub 9mo ago

> I have no idea how people use mac. Meh, it has a terminal. Good enough for me. It's worth putting up with MacOS for the hardware.

8bitsrule 9mo ago

Interesting. My experience over a decade was that (expensive) Apple hardware was unreliable or poorly designed ... from the IIsi to the iMac. One exception: the murdered Power clone was great. The iMac vertical screen-stripe fiasco (affected hundreds of users within the warranty period, before they shut down the forum, then took years to respond to) was capped with a hard-drive fail after a year. My 'never again' still in effect 15 years later. My home-made AMD tower is in its 6th year (running Linux) with no, zero, fails.