4 ms·

I like Devuan because it matches the Linux I learned - people who learned with a Systemd distro might not like it as much.

direwolf20 9mo ago
I can use systemd but it's always annoying to configure and sometimes randomly breaks and it's hard to know why. init.d scripts are no better, though. Runit is quite cool.
- j16sdiz 9mo ago
  runit is optional on Devuan.
MadnessASAP 9mo ago
I personally am very much happy that Linux is not like the Linux I learned. Slackware was an excellent learning experience and will always hold a dear place in my heart and memories, but not on any of my computers.
- fernandotakai 9mo ago
  same. i still remember how painful it was to setup services without systemd. having to manually deal with daemons was so painful, to the point of being exoteric.
  - Tistron 9mo ago
    Exoteric is the opposite of esoteric, which is the word you mean :)
  - claudex 9mo ago
    The worst was editing an existing service for the distribution. With systemd you just need an override file, without, you have to patch the file and review it each time it is upgraded to check the differences.
    - account42 9mo ago
      Only if your config sucks at /etc/ management. But ultimately you change the default config then it's good to be notified when there are upstream changes to it so that you can decide for yourself if they are important/irrelevant/harmful for you and adapt your version accordingly.
PunchyHamster 9mo ago
I liked it coz I did remember the old ways (as in kernel 2.2.x old) and they fucking sucked. Few examples of bugs I had to fix in sysv that just can't happen in very simply written systemd unit: * multiple java based apps wrote pid in java which meant few secs after JVM started, so calling start -> status made status return app is not running, which tripped some tools * mysql wrote pid in /var/run which was (at that time, most moved it to tmpfs finally, and that is also easier with systemd) not removed on stop. and on start it only checked whether PID existed in system, not what the PID was. So sometimes if some other app happened to get same PID as mysql on previous boot, mysql would not start on boot * there was no checks on whether stuff app needs is mounted so some volume failing to mount could make app start with empty dir and lead to a mess. It has problems. But it's also a massive improvement.
- teddyh 9mo ago
  I agree; I was there, too: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30312899 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30312899>
IshKebab 9mo ago
Good for you, but I wish this attitude wasn't weaponised so frequently to prevent progress by people who actually want progress.

direwolf20 9mo ago

I can use systemd but it's always annoying to configure and sometimes randomly breaks and it's hard to know why. init.d scripts are no better, though. Runit is quite cool.

j16sdiz 9mo ago
runit is optional on Devuan.

MadnessASAP 9mo ago

I personally am very much happy that Linux is not like the Linux I learned. Slackware was an excellent learning experience and will always hold a dear place in my heart and memories, but not on any of my computers.

fernandotakai 9mo ago
same. i still remember how painful it was to setup services without systemd. having to manually deal with daemons was so painful, to the point of being exoteric.
- Tistron 9mo ago
  Exoteric is the opposite of esoteric, which is the word you mean :)
- claudex 9mo ago
  The worst was editing an existing service for the distribution. With systemd you just need an override file, without, you have to patch the file and review it each time it is upgraded to check the differences.
  - account42 9mo ago
    Only if your config sucks at /etc/ management. But ultimately you change the default config then it's good to be notified when there are upstream changes to it so that you can decide for yourself if they are important/irrelevant/harmful for you and adapt your version accordingly.

PunchyHamster 9mo ago

I liked it coz I did remember the old ways (as in kernel 2.2.x old) and they fucking sucked. Few examples of bugs I had to fix in sysv that just can't happen in very simply written systemd unit: * multiple java based apps wrote pid in java which meant few secs after JVM started, so calling start -> status made status return app is not running, which tripped some tools * mysql wrote pid in /var/run which was (at that time, most moved it to tmpfs finally, and that is also easier with systemd) not removed on stop. and on start it only checked whether PID existed in system, not what the PID was. So sometimes if some other app happened to get same PID as mysql on previous boot, mysql would not start on boot * there was no checks on whether stuff app needs is mounted so some volume failing to mount could make app start with empty dir and lead to a mess. It has problems. But it's also a massive improvement.

teddyh 9mo ago
I agree; I was there, too: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30312899 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30312899>

IshKebab 9mo ago

Good for you, but I wish this attitude wasn't weaponised so frequently to prevent progress by people who actually want progress.