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Protesting is absolutely something you can and should be able to do casually and without having to protect your face/identity. It was enshrined in the First Ame

Protesting is absolutely something you can and should be able to do casually and without having to protect your face/identity. It was enshrined in the First Amendment as a fundamental check on the federal government in order to recognize the natural right of a self-governing people to peaceably assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances. What is not something that should be gone casually – or really at all – is an attempt to engage in insurrection with black bloc or globalized intifada insurgency tactics to prevent the enforcement of law.

themafia 8mo ago
> Protesting is absolutely something you can and should be able to do casually Then you are going to be identified and your conversations monitored. This is precisely the outcome the article is complaining about. I find that expectation absurd. > of a self-governing people This describes the majority not the individual. > and petition the government There is no expectation or statement that your anonymity will be protected. The entire idea of a "petition" immediately defies this. > to prevent the enforcement of law. How does "tracking ICE" _prevent_ the enforcement of the law? Your views on the first amendment suddenly became quite narrow.
- account42 8mo ago
  > How does "tracking ICE" _prevent_ the enforcement of the law? Your views on the first amendment suddenly became quite narrow. Because the whole point of tracking ICE is to help people dodge them. It's absurd that people cry foul when the government goes after people actively opposing the rule of law.
  - fc417fc802 8mo ago
    > It's absurd that people cry foul when the government goes after people actively opposing the rule of law. I expect the vast majority of government abuses in recent history the world over have to at least some degree followed the law according to those carrying out the acts. Thus it is almost to be expected that as a situation escalates those crying foul might occasionally find themselves opposing the rule of law as described by those in power. To state it plainly, not all "rule of law" is subjectively equal.
  - dTal 8mo ago
    Rule of law? Innocent people are being shot.
    - account42 8mo ago
      Wile I don't think they deserved to loose their lives over it, calling them "innocent" is quite dishonest. They were at the very least intentionally being a nuisance and in most cases breaking actual laws in the process.
      - kdkirsch 8mo ago
        So now being a nuisance is justification for summary extrajudicial executions?! If people on HN believe this then we’re toast.
        zahlman 8mo ago
        That is not at all the argument being made.
      - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
        > They were at the very least intentionally being a nuisance and in most cases breaking actual laws in the process Pretti was breaking zero laws. You’d have to do some prosecutorial voodoo to conjure up a misdemeanor. There is lawbreaking in that videos. But the felony-level stuff is all from folks in uniform. (Which, thankfully, they’ve started wearing.)
        zahlman 8mo ago
        [flagged]
      - maxehmookau 8mo ago
        Being a nuisance is not illegal. In the eyes of the law, someone being a nuisance is, indeed, innocent - and to say so is not dishonest.
      - 8mo ago
  - VBprogrammer 8mo ago
    Law enforcement only works when the people have trust in those doing the enforcement. ICE have lost the trust of a significant portion of the people in Minnesota because they are using unreasonable force, eroding constitutionally protected rights and behaving with impunity. They are, in reality, just conducting a politically motivated campaign of harassment. If they truly wanted to deport as many people as possible they'd start with border states like Florida and Texas, places with 20x more undocumented immigrants.
    - NickC25 8mo ago
      Or, get this - they'd go after the people who employ illegal immigrants en masse in those states. Illegal immigrants aren't a thing at any meaningful scale if there aren't people willing to hire them. But since a lot of those businesses that hire illegally or "look the other way" are BIG republican donors in deep red states....we can't do anything about it. We should have made e-verify the federal minimum standard for ALL employment as far back as 1985. We had the tech and the ability. Y'all honestly think Donald Trump hires blue-blooded WASPs to mow the lawns at his golf courses?
      - quickthrowman 8mo ago
        > Or, get this - they'd go after the people who employ illegal immigrants en masse in those states. This is not economically feasible, the cost of food would double or more. They know that and I know that. That’s why they aren’t actually targeting illegal immigrants, America’s dirty secret is that we need them to keep prices low on certain things. Good luck finding Americans that will pick strawberries or work in a meatpacking plant for $12-16/hr
        NickC25 8mo ago
        We have things called subsidies for that reason. Agribusiness companies of all sizes including megacorps get tons of money in subsides for this sort of situation. Unfortunately, those subsidies go towards purchasing lobbyists, growing profit margins, and paying executives instead of lowering food costs to Americans. And yes, it absolutely is feasible, and we all know it. It's just if it happened, some very wealthy and influential people would lose a bit of money and influence - we can't have that now can we?
  - direwolf20 8mo ago
    Which law makes it illegal to track ICE? If there isn't a law against it, but you think the government should arrest people for it anyway, then you don't support rule of law.
    - VBprogrammer 8mo ago
      The obvious retort is "obstruction". Of course it doesn't hold up to scrutiny because courts have consistently held that obstruction has to be a physical act. Simply being nearby, filming or calling them names doesn't count.
      - zahlman 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        direwolf20 8mo ago
        Change of subject. This discussion is about tracking them.
        VBprogrammer 8mo ago
        And yet without the video evidence provided by other protestors you'd still be spouting the line that Alex Pretti was brandishing his gun.
        esseph 8mo ago
        Seems like a true believer in what is happening.
      - mothballed 8mo ago
        Is kicking out tail lights and spitting at agents obstruction?[] Because he definitely appears to have done that about a week before his death. Though that doesn't merit death. [] https://youtu.be/p2TRbFmutrw?t=1023 https://youtu.be/p2TRbFmutrw?t=1023
  - florkbork 8mo ago
    Nonsense. ICE are engaging in violence, warrantless forced entry to homes, at least two shootings that border on murder, they even tried to force entry into an Ecuadorian embassy. They are detaining citizens at random, relocating them physically and in some cases releasing them; if they don't die in detention due to lack of access to medical care. If you cannot see how these activities should be observed, documented, protested whilst still standing for professed Amercian values... Edit: Ah excellent, downvotes without reply because facts are... uncomfortable! Here's the sources: https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ice-agents-blocked-from-attempting-to-enter-ecuadorian-consulate-in-minneapolis-without-permission/ https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ice-agents-blocked-from-... - Ecuadorian consulate. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/a-u-s-citizen-says-ice-forced-open-the-door-to-his-minnesota-home-and-removed-him-in-his-underwear-after-a-warrantless-search https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/a-u-s-citizen-says-ice-f... - warrantless entry https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-citizens-arrested-detained-against-will https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-... - many, many US citizens detained only for charges to vanish at the merest scrutiny https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/27/five-year-old-girl-us-citizen-and-mother-deported-honduras https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/27/five-year-ol... - deporting citizens https://newrepublic.com/post/205458/ice-detainees-pay-for-medical-care https://newrepublic.com/post/205458/ice-detainees-pay-for-me... - cutting off medical care https://abcnews.go.com/US/detainees-heard-cuban-man-slammed-ground-death-ice/story?id=129602443 https://abcnews.go.com/US/detainees-heard-cuban-man-slammed-... - deaths in custody
  - cogman10 8mo ago
    > Because the whole point of tracking ICE is to help people dodge them. Seems completely reasonable given ICE is murdering, arresting, and deporting citizens and legal residents. The government wronging 1 person to rightfully enforce the law on 10 is unacceptable.
  - AppleAtCha 8mo ago
    IANAL but I don't think it's so cut and dried that creating a crowdsourced map of publicly visible ice operations is illegal. Yes such a map could be used by illegal immigrants to avoid detention. It could also be used by law abiding citizens that want to avoid the hubbub these operations cause or by legal us citizens that don't wanna be targeted just for being in the neighborhood. It seems like a decent lawyer could make a case that publishing the location of an ice operation is not the same as acting with intent to interfere with the operation.
  - nobody9999 8mo ago
    >Because the whole point of tracking ICE is to help people dodge them. It's absurd that people cry foul when the government goes after people actively opposing the rule of law. By your logic, combined with the actions of the ICE folks in Minneapolis, anyone who submits the location of a DUI checkpoint into Waze[0] should be summarily executed? Is that your argument? ICE has murdered people for documenting their locations and actions which, by your statement was to allow others to "dodge" law enforcement. Documenting a DUI checkpoint does exactly the same thing. So. If your position is that law "enforcement" is allowed to summarily shoot to death folks who document their actions and locations in one context, then they should be allowed to do so in other, more serious contexts like DUI checkpoints. Is that your claim? If not, please do provide some nuance around what you said, because that's how I understood your statements. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waze
cucumber3732842 8mo ago
>What is not something that should be gone casually – or really at all – is an attempt to engage in insurrection with black bloc or globalized intifada insurgency tactics to prevent the enforcement of law. I disagree. If the feds, or any law enforcement, wants to enforce law that is so unpopular that people feel compelled to make it hard in this way then, IDK, sucks for them. Go beg for more budget. And I feel this way about a whole ton of categories of law, not just The Current Thing (TM). A huge reason that law and government in this country is so f-ed up is that people, states, municipalities and big corporations in particular, just roll over and take it because that keeps the $$ flowing. A solid majority of the stuff the feds force upon the nation in the form of "do X, get a big enough tax break you can't compete without it" or "enforce Y if you want your government to qualify for fed $$" would not be support and could not be enforced if it had to be done so overtly, with enforcers paid to enforce it, rather than backhandedly by quasi deputizing other entities in exchange for $$.
- dolni 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - florkbork 8mo ago
    Factually incorrect. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps-immigration-approval-drops-record-low-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2026-01-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps-immigration-approval... > Just 39% of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing on immigration, down from 41% earlier this month, while 53% disapprove, the poll found.
    - dolni 8mo ago
      We are talking about two different things. I am talking about American support for a working legal immigration process, and enforcing that process. Not everyone agrees about exactly what it should look like. I'm not talking specifically about the actions Trump is taking or the job ICE is doing currently. The current sentiment around ICE is very negative.
sgarland 8mo ago
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. … He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance. He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures. He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power. … For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us. For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States. - Some insurrectionists
MSFT_Edging 8mo ago
Martin Luther King said while all should aim to follow the law and obey, if a law is unjust then one should break it proudly and in the open. Militarized police with general warrants going door to door, going into schools, hospitals, places of worship to detain the dehumanized untermensch is legal. People loudly protesting and sabotaging these efforts via their first amendment is a far more moral and honorable stance, despite being illegal in a round-about way. It's quite literally a protest against state violence via non-violent means.
quickthrowman 8mo ago
> Protesting is absolutely something you can and should be able to do casually and without having to protect your face/identity. I am unwilling to risk protesting against this administration given the combination of facial scanning, IMSI catchers, ALPRs, and surveillance cameras in general. I cannot think of a way to stay truly anonymous when protesting, with enough access and time, you could be tracked back to your home even if you leave your phone at home and take public transportation. I believe the aforementioned technology chills free speech in combination with the current administration. I’m not particularly worried about protesters being targeted by this administration, I worry about future administrations that could be far worse.

themafia 8mo ago

> Protesting is absolutely something you can and should be able to do casually Then you are going to be identified and your conversations monitored. This is precisely the outcome the article is complaining about. I find that expectation absurd. > of a self-governing people This describes the majority not the individual. > and petition the government There is no expectation or statement that your anonymity will be protected. The entire idea of a "petition" immediately defies this. > to prevent the enforcement of law. How does "tracking ICE" _prevent_ the enforcement of the law? Your views on the first amendment suddenly became quite narrow.

account42 8mo ago
> How does "tracking ICE" _prevent_ the enforcement of the law? Your views on the first amendment suddenly became quite narrow. Because the whole point of tracking ICE is to help people dodge them. It's absurd that people cry foul when the government goes after people actively opposing the rule of law.
- fc417fc802 8mo ago
  > It's absurd that people cry foul when the government goes after people actively opposing the rule of law. I expect the vast majority of government abuses in recent history the world over have to at least some degree followed the law according to those carrying out the acts. Thus it is almost to be expected that as a situation escalates those crying foul might occasionally find themselves opposing the rule of law as described by those in power. To state it plainly, not all "rule of law" is subjectively equal.
- dTal 8mo ago
  Rule of law? Innocent people are being shot.
  - account42 8mo ago
    Wile I don't think they deserved to loose their lives over it, calling them "innocent" is quite dishonest. They were at the very least intentionally being a nuisance and in most cases breaking actual laws in the process.
    - kdkirsch 8mo ago
      So now being a nuisance is justification for summary extrajudicial executions?! If people on HN believe this then we’re toast.
      - zahlman 8mo ago
        That is not at all the argument being made.
    - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
      > They were at the very least intentionally being a nuisance and in most cases breaking actual laws in the process Pretti was breaking zero laws. You’d have to do some prosecutorial voodoo to conjure up a misdemeanor. There is lawbreaking in that videos. But the felony-level stuff is all from folks in uniform. (Which, thankfully, they’ve started wearing.)
      - zahlman 8mo ago
        [flagged]
    - maxehmookau 8mo ago
      Being a nuisance is not illegal. In the eyes of the law, someone being a nuisance is, indeed, innocent - and to say so is not dishonest.
    - 8mo ago
- VBprogrammer 8mo ago
  Law enforcement only works when the people have trust in those doing the enforcement. ICE have lost the trust of a significant portion of the people in Minnesota because they are using unreasonable force, eroding constitutionally protected rights and behaving with impunity. They are, in reality, just conducting a politically motivated campaign of harassment. If they truly wanted to deport as many people as possible they'd start with border states like Florida and Texas, places with 20x more undocumented immigrants.
  - NickC25 8mo ago
    Or, get this - they'd go after the people who employ illegal immigrants en masse in those states. Illegal immigrants aren't a thing at any meaningful scale if there aren't people willing to hire them. But since a lot of those businesses that hire illegally or "look the other way" are BIG republican donors in deep red states....we can't do anything about it. We should have made e-verify the federal minimum standard for ALL employment as far back as 1985. We had the tech and the ability. Y'all honestly think Donald Trump hires blue-blooded WASPs to mow the lawns at his golf courses?
    - quickthrowman 8mo ago
      > Or, get this - they'd go after the people who employ illegal immigrants en masse in those states. This is not economically feasible, the cost of food would double or more. They know that and I know that. That’s why they aren’t actually targeting illegal immigrants, America’s dirty secret is that we need them to keep prices low on certain things. Good luck finding Americans that will pick strawberries or work in a meatpacking plant for $12-16/hr
      - NickC25 8mo ago
        We have things called subsidies for that reason. Agribusiness companies of all sizes including megacorps get tons of money in subsides for this sort of situation. Unfortunately, those subsidies go towards purchasing lobbyists, growing profit margins, and paying executives instead of lowering food costs to Americans. And yes, it absolutely is feasible, and we all know it. It's just if it happened, some very wealthy and influential people would lose a bit of money and influence - we can't have that now can we?
- direwolf20 8mo ago
  Which law makes it illegal to track ICE? If there isn't a law against it, but you think the government should arrest people for it anyway, then you don't support rule of law.
  - VBprogrammer 8mo ago
    The obvious retort is "obstruction". Of course it doesn't hold up to scrutiny because courts have consistently held that obstruction has to be a physical act. Simply being nearby, filming or calling them names doesn't count.
    - zahlman 8mo ago
      [flagged]
      - direwolf20 8mo ago
        Change of subject. This discussion is about tracking them.
      - VBprogrammer 8mo ago
        And yet without the video evidence provided by other protestors you'd still be spouting the line that Alex Pretti was brandishing his gun.
        esseph 8mo ago
        Seems like a true believer in what is happening.
    - mothballed 8mo ago
      Is kicking out tail lights and spitting at agents obstruction?[] Because he definitely appears to have done that about a week before his death. Though that doesn't merit death. [] https://youtu.be/p2TRbFmutrw?t=1023 https://youtu.be/p2TRbFmutrw?t=1023
- florkbork 8mo ago
  Nonsense. ICE are engaging in violence, warrantless forced entry to homes, at least two shootings that border on murder, they even tried to force entry into an Ecuadorian embassy. They are detaining citizens at random, relocating them physically and in some cases releasing them; if they don't die in detention due to lack of access to medical care. If you cannot see how these activities should be observed, documented, protested whilst still standing for professed Amercian values... Edit: Ah excellent, downvotes without reply because facts are... uncomfortable! Here's the sources: https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ice-agents-blocked-from-attempting-to-enter-ecuadorian-consulate-in-minneapolis-without-permission/ https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ice-agents-blocked-from-... - Ecuadorian consulate. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/a-u-s-citizen-says-ice-forced-open-the-door-to-his-minnesota-home-and-removed-him-in-his-underwear-after-a-warrantless-search https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/a-u-s-citizen-says-ice-f... - warrantless entry https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-citizens-arrested-detained-against-will https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-... - many, many US citizens detained only for charges to vanish at the merest scrutiny https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/27/five-year-old-girl-us-citizen-and-mother-deported-honduras https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/27/five-year-ol... - deporting citizens https://newrepublic.com/post/205458/ice-detainees-pay-for-medical-care https://newrepublic.com/post/205458/ice-detainees-pay-for-me... - cutting off medical care https://abcnews.go.com/US/detainees-heard-cuban-man-slammed-ground-death-ice/story?id=129602443 https://abcnews.go.com/US/detainees-heard-cuban-man-slammed-... - deaths in custody
- cogman10 8mo ago
  > Because the whole point of tracking ICE is to help people dodge them. Seems completely reasonable given ICE is murdering, arresting, and deporting citizens and legal residents. The government wronging 1 person to rightfully enforce the law on 10 is unacceptable.
- AppleAtCha 8mo ago
  IANAL but I don't think it's so cut and dried that creating a crowdsourced map of publicly visible ice operations is illegal. Yes such a map could be used by illegal immigrants to avoid detention. It could also be used by law abiding citizens that want to avoid the hubbub these operations cause or by legal us citizens that don't wanna be targeted just for being in the neighborhood. It seems like a decent lawyer could make a case that publishing the location of an ice operation is not the same as acting with intent to interfere with the operation.
- nobody9999 8mo ago
  >Because the whole point of tracking ICE is to help people dodge them. It's absurd that people cry foul when the government goes after people actively opposing the rule of law. By your logic, combined with the actions of the ICE folks in Minneapolis, anyone who submits the location of a DUI checkpoint into Waze[0] should be summarily executed? Is that your argument? ICE has murdered people for documenting their locations and actions which, by your statement was to allow others to "dodge" law enforcement. Documenting a DUI checkpoint does exactly the same thing. So. If your position is that law "enforcement" is allowed to summarily shoot to death folks who document their actions and locations in one context, then they should be allowed to do so in other, more serious contexts like DUI checkpoints. Is that your claim? If not, please do provide some nuance around what you said, because that's how I understood your statements. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waze

cucumber3732842 8mo ago

>What is not something that should be gone casually – or really at all – is an attempt to engage in insurrection with black bloc or globalized intifada insurgency tactics to prevent the enforcement of law. I disagree. If the feds, or any law enforcement, wants to enforce law that is so unpopular that people feel compelled to make it hard in this way then, IDK, sucks for them. Go beg for more budget. And I feel this way about a whole ton of categories of law, not just The Current Thing (TM). A huge reason that law and government in this country is so f-ed up is that people, states, municipalities and big corporations in particular, just roll over and take it because that keeps the $$ flowing. A solid majority of the stuff the feds force upon the nation in the form of "do X, get a big enough tax break you can't compete without it" or "enforce Y if you want your government to qualify for fed $$" would not be support and could not be enforced if it had to be done so overtly, with enforcers paid to enforce it, rather than backhandedly by quasi deputizing other entities in exchange for $$.

dolni 8mo ago
[flagged]
- florkbork 8mo ago
  Factually incorrect. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps-immigration-approval-drops-record-low-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2026-01-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps-immigration-approval... > Just 39% of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing on immigration, down from 41% earlier this month, while 53% disapprove, the poll found.
  - dolni 8mo ago
    We are talking about two different things. I am talking about American support for a working legal immigration process, and enforcing that process. Not everyone agrees about exactly what it should look like. I'm not talking specifically about the actions Trump is taking or the job ICE is doing currently. The current sentiment around ICE is very negative.

sgarland 8mo ago

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. … He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance. He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures. He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power. … For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us. For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States. - Some insurrectionists

MSFT_Edging 8mo ago

Martin Luther King said while all should aim to follow the law and obey, if a law is unjust then one should break it proudly and in the open. Militarized police with general warrants going door to door, going into schools, hospitals, places of worship to detain the dehumanized untermensch is legal. People loudly protesting and sabotaging these efforts via their first amendment is a far more moral and honorable stance, despite being illegal in a round-about way. It's quite literally a protest against state violence via non-violent means.

quickthrowman 8mo ago

> Protesting is absolutely something you can and should be able to do casually and without having to protect your face/identity. I am unwilling to risk protesting against this administration given the combination of facial scanning, IMSI catchers, ALPRs, and surveillance cameras in general. I cannot think of a way to stay truly anonymous when protesting, with enough access and time, you could be tracked back to your home even if you leave your phone at home and take public transportation. I believe the aforementioned technology chills free speech in combination with the current administration. I’m not particularly worried about protesters being targeted by this administration, I worry about future administrations that could be far worse.