4 ms·
So LP is or has left Microsoft ? >We are building cryptographically verifiable integrity into Linux systems I wonder what that means ? It could be a good thi
by jmclnx 9mo ago
So LP is or has left Microsoft ?
>We are building cryptographically verifiable integrity into Linux systems
I wonder what that means ? It could be a good thing, but I tend to think it could be a privacy nightmare depending on who controls the keys.
- mikkupikku 9mo agoSounds like kernel mode DRM or some similarly unwanted bullshit.
- bayindirh 9mo agoIt's probably built on systemd's Secure Boot + immutability support. As said above, it's about who controls the keys. It's either building your own castle or having to live with the Ultimate TiVo. We'll see.
- direwolf20 9mo agoWe all know who controls the keys. It's the first party who puts their hands on the device.
- bayindirh 9mo agoDoesn't have to be. While I'm not a fan of systemd (my comment history is there), I want to start from a neutral PoV, and see what it does. I have my reservations, ideas, and what it's supposed to do, but this is not a place to make speculations and to break spirits. I'll put my criticism out politely when it's time.
- curt15 9mo agoAnd once you remove the friction for requiring cryptographic verification of each component, all it takes is one well-resourced lobby to pass a law either banning user-controlled signing keys outright or relegating them to second-class status. All governments share broadly similar tendencies; the EU and UK govts have always coveted central control over user devices.
- zb3 9mo agoJust to make it clear - on Android you don't have the keys. Even with avb_custom_key you can't modify many partitions.
- egorfine 9mo ago> who controls the keys Not you. This technology is not being built for you.
- youarentrightjr 9mo ago> Sounds like kernel mode DRM or some similarly unwanted bullshit. Look, I hate systemd just as much as the next guy - but how are you getting "DRM" out of this?
- omnicognate 9mo agoAs the immediate responder to this comment, I claim to be the next guy. I love systemd.
- PunchyHamster 9mo agoI don't like few pieces and Mr. Lennarts attitude to some bugs/obvious flaws, but by far much better than old sysv or really any alternative we have. Doing complex flows like "run app to load keys from remote server to unlock encrypted partition" is far easier under systemd and it have dependency system robust enough to trigger that mount automatically if app needing it starts
- mikkupikku 9mo agoI don't mind SystemD.
- josephcsible 9mo ago"cryptographically verifiable integrity" is a euphemism for tivoization/Treacherous Computing. See, e.g., https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.en.html
- bri3d 9mo agoHacker News has recently been dominated by conspiracy theorists who believe that all applications of cryptography are evil attempts by shadowy corporate overlords to dominate their use of computing.
- josephcsible 9mo agoNo, it's not "all applications of cryptography". It's only remote attestation.
- poettering 9mo agoYes, I have.
- advisedwang 9mo agoThe events includes a conference title "Remote Attestation of Imutable Operating Systems built on systemd", which is a bit of a clue.
- jsheard 9mo agoI'm sure this company is more focused on the enterprise angle, but I wonder if the buildout of support for remote attestation could eventually resolve the Linux gaming vs. anti-cheat stalemate. At least for those willing to use a "blessed" kernel provided by Valve or whoever.
- direwolf20 9mo agoOnly by creating a new stalemate between essential liberty and a little temporary security — anticheat doesn't protect you from DMA cheating.
- jsheard 9mo agoI might be behind on the latest counter-counter-counter-measures, but I know some of the leading AC solutions are already using IOMMU to wedge a firewall between passive DMA sniffers and the game processes memory. e.g. https://support.faceit.com/hc/en-us/articles/19590307650588-Enabling-IOMMU-DMA-Protection https://support.faceit.com/hc/en-us/articles/19590307650588-...
- direwolf20 9mo agoI think they use hardware IDs of devices with IOMMU-incompatible drivers.
- PunchyHamster 9mo agoI love the gall > IOMMU is a powerful hardware security feature, which is used to protect your machine from malicious software The ring-0 anticheat IS that fucking malicious software
- 9mo ago
- dTal 9mo agoVerifiable to who? Some remote third party that isn't me? The hell would I want that?
- murphyslaw 9mo agoJust an assumption here, but the project appears to be about the methodology to verify the install. Who holds the keys is an entirely different matter.
- dsr_ 9mo agoWerner Von Braun only built the rockets; he didn't aim them, nor did he care where they landed. (London. On some of my relatives.)
- daviddever23box 9mo ago...and the moon.
- dsr_ 9mo agoYou'll understand if I don't think the tradeoffs were necessary, or worthwhile.
- jacquesm 9mo agoAmbition does really weird things to people. But I'm sure in this case when they achieve some kind of dominant position and Microsoft offers to re-absorb them they will do the honorable thing.
- direwolf20 9mo agoWhen has that ever happened in the entire human history?
- 9mo ago
- touisteur 9mo agorust-vmm-based environment that verifies/authenticates an image before running ? Immutable VM (no FS, root dropper after setting up network, no or curated device), 'micro'-vm based on systemd ? vmm captures running kernel code/memory mapping before handing off to userland, checks periodically it hasn't changed ? Anything else on the state of the art of immutable/integrity-checking of VMs?