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>The "productive people" were driven away because they didn't want to live next to black people. This is wrong. You think one day all the white people said "H

by tsotha 14y ago

>The "productive people" were driven away because they didn't want to live next to black people. This is wrong. You think one day all the white people said "Hey, wait a minute! We've been living next to black people for generations, and that has to stop"? It's not the taxes on people that are the problem, it's the taxes and regulations on businesses. Detroit took the attitude the car companies would always be around no matter what stupid rule the city came up with. The problem is businesses come and go. If your city sucks for business, more go than come and eventually you're Detroit. >It's also a little funny considering that 27% of US GDP comes from just seven heavily regulated, heavily taxed metros: NY, LA, Chicago, DC, Philly, SF, and Boston. And it's not just population, these cities only account for 20% of the US population. Yes, and eventually those places will end up like Detroit. Hell, NYC almost went that way in the '70s and was only rescued by the financial industry they seem intent on driving away today.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
Its both actually. Take the riots from the 60s and 70s, and the blight of the 80s (when I was there!), white flight led to a huge implosion of property taxes. They tried to make that up in business taxes, which then forced out the businesses, and the death spiral continues! Cities are pretty fragile places, one disruption can set off a chain reaction and...bam! It will take some revolutionary thinking to save Detroit. You are completely wrong that "those places" will turn out like Detroit. Their ecosystems are very healthy, NYC went from bankrupt in the 70s, via some good public policy and not just wall street, back to the premiere world city that it was. The only at risk city on the list is Philly, but it seems to be doing pretty well recently. These are healthy ecosystems, even with taxes (or you could say, using taxes to pay the police to enforce laws is a good thing). There is no great migration of people to red cities (cities in red states with low taxes), and even those red cities are quite blue (Atlanta in Georgia, Houston in Texas). Cities are just against libertarian principles, dense societies need to pull resources together to survive and thrive.
- rayiner 14y ago
  > There is no great migration of people to red cities (cities in red states with low taxes), and even those red cities are quite blue (Atlanta in Georgia, Houston in Texas). Cities are just against libertarian principles, dense societies need to pull resources together to survive and thrive. As someone who lived in Atlanta for a long time and now lives in Chicago, I find the idea that southern boom cities are less taxed and less regulated to be laughable. Atlanta is completely owned by the democratic party. The boom in these cities is being driven by housing prices, not business climate.
  - clarkm 14y ago
    You act like the local Democratic party in Atlanta is the exact same ideologically as the party in Chicago, which is definitely not true.
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      All politics is local, but Atlanta democrats aren't blue dogs. Their constituency is very urban, which means they will be more liberal than say a democrat who represents farmland in North Dakota.
rayiner 14y ago
> This is wrong. You think one day all the white people said "Hey, wait a minute! Pretty much exactly this, between school desegregation and the construction of interstates through the cities that made suburban commutes easier. > Yes, and eventually those places will end up like Detroit. Hell, NYC almost went that way in the '70s and was only rescued by the financial industry they seem intent on driving away today. All of these cities have growing GDPs and populations. Some are growing faster, like Houston or Atlanta, but that was driven by cheap housing and has collapsed dramatically with the end of the housing boom. Indeed, the country is urbanizing and more people are moving into the cities.

by tsotha 14y ago

seanmcdirmid 14y ago

Its both actually. Take the riots from the 60s and 70s, and the blight of the 80s (when I was there!), white flight led to a huge implosion of property taxes. They tried to make that up in business taxes, which then forced out the businesses, and the death spiral continues! Cities are pretty fragile places, one disruption can set off a chain reaction and...bam! It will take some revolutionary thinking to save Detroit. You are completely wrong that "those places" will turn out like Detroit. Their ecosystems are very healthy, NYC went from bankrupt in the 70s, via some good public policy and not just wall street, back to the premiere world city that it was. The only at risk city on the list is Philly, but it seems to be doing pretty well recently. These are healthy ecosystems, even with taxes (or you could say, using taxes to pay the police to enforce laws is a good thing). There is no great migration of people to red cities (cities in red states with low taxes), and even those red cities are quite blue (Atlanta in Georgia, Houston in Texas). Cities are just against libertarian principles, dense societies need to pull resources together to survive and thrive.

rayiner 14y ago
> There is no great migration of people to red cities (cities in red states with low taxes), and even those red cities are quite blue (Atlanta in Georgia, Houston in Texas). Cities are just against libertarian principles, dense societies need to pull resources together to survive and thrive. As someone who lived in Atlanta for a long time and now lives in Chicago, I find the idea that southern boom cities are less taxed and less regulated to be laughable. Atlanta is completely owned by the democratic party. The boom in these cities is being driven by housing prices, not business climate.
- clarkm 14y ago
  You act like the local Democratic party in Atlanta is the exact same ideologically as the party in Chicago, which is definitely not true.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    All politics is local, but Atlanta democrats aren't blue dogs. Their constituency is very urban, which means they will be more liberal than say a democrat who represents farmland in North Dakota.

rayiner 14y ago

> This is wrong. You think one day all the white people said "Hey, wait a minute! Pretty much exactly this, between school desegregation and the construction of interstates through the cities that made suburban commutes easier. > Yes, and eventually those places will end up like Detroit. Hell, NYC almost went that way in the '70s and was only rescued by the financial industry they seem intent on driving away today. All of these cities have growing GDPs and populations. Some are growing faster, like Houston or Atlanta, but that was driven by cheap housing and has collapsed dramatically with the end of the housing boom. Indeed, the country is urbanizing and more people are moving into the cities.