4 ms·

The problem I was listening to a historian discuss the other day is that we're stuck in a cycle of: 1. Republican breaks norms/laws 2. Democrat cleans up

by gcanyon 9mo ago

The problem I was listening to a historian discuss the other day is that we're stuck in a cycle of: 1. Republican breaks norms/laws 2. Democrat cleans up after, but by *not* breaking norms, doesn't go far enough to actually undo all the damage 3. We end up with a more broken governmental configuration, and head back to (1) They said this pattern goes back to Nixon.

Jcampuzano2 9mo ago
Theres a reason 99% of actions taken by democrats are just "strongly worded letters" and how they consistently come up with the exact small number of Democrats needed to push legislation and bills that the party proposes to be against. Most Democratic politicians are in on the game too. Its all just political theater and their in-group rotates out who gets to be the bad guys. Yes Democrats clean-up by not breaking norms, but as mentioned they never go far enough because they legitimately do not want to go too far due to corporate interests and the elite. I am left leaning but do not align with the majority of the Democratic party because they are in on this too. They have the tools to be much more antagonistic to the GOP but they purposely don't use them
- gcanyon 9mo ago
  I think this take is on the cynical side. A more charitable interpretation would be what they say (but maybe I'm being naive): that they don't want to break the rules to fix what someone else broke by breaking the rules. I'm not sure what you mean by "they consistently come up with the exact small number of Democrats needed to push legislation and bills that the party proposes to be against" -- if you mean the Republicans manage to get some Democrats to "switch sides" -- it's important to remember that this is how everything used to get done. Check the old votes: party-line was less common back in the day. And even now, Democrats tolerate members with differing opinions far more than the GOP does, and it shows in their voting patterns.
  - deaux 9mo ago
    You're not just being naive, you're ignoring the blatant reality. 2016 DNC is enough evidence that yes, the core of the party is very much in on it.
    - gcanyon 9mo ago
      Can you expand on this, because I'm not understanding what your grief with the 2016 DNC is. I'll help speed the process saying: 1. I voted for Bernie in the primary 2. I fully recognize -- and we all should -- that the DNC is not beholden to us to run the primary in a particular way. Until some point in the 20th century nominees were literally decided in backroom deals without primaries influencing anything. So the idea that they "robbed" us of the Bernie candidacy doesn't hold sway with me (if that's what you're arguing) even though I supported him myself.
      - deaux 9mo ago
        The issue isn't not choosing Bernie, it's knowingly picking the only candidate who could possibly lose. Because as GP said, they're in on the game. The goal wasn't to pick who they sincerely believed to be the best candidate for the country, including both fitness and likelihood of winning. So it's theatre, as they pretend to put the populace first, but clearly they don't.
        parasubvert 9mo ago
        Or perhaps, the base and establishment of the Democratic Party (ie. moderate black people) rejected Bernie because they felt he was a bad choice. This Bernie trutherism is really getting old, it's been disproven so many times.
        deaux 9mo ago
        You're reading things that aren't there. There was an endless supply of other options, not just Bernie. Projecting things onto others is getting old.
deaux 9mo ago
One willing to break the norms and campaigning on this in Trump-like weasel words would landslide the next election. Not a chance in hell that'd be allowed to happen though, as big tech, the DNC, and the rest of the capital class would put a stop to their platform long before.

by gcanyon 9mo ago

Jcampuzano2 9mo ago

Theres a reason 99% of actions taken by democrats are just "strongly worded letters" and how they consistently come up with the exact small number of Democrats needed to push legislation and bills that the party proposes to be against. Most Democratic politicians are in on the game too. Its all just political theater and their in-group rotates out who gets to be the bad guys. Yes Democrats clean-up by not breaking norms, but as mentioned they never go far enough because they legitimately do not want to go too far due to corporate interests and the elite. I am left leaning but do not align with the majority of the Democratic party because they are in on this too. They have the tools to be much more antagonistic to the GOP but they purposely don't use them

gcanyon 9mo ago
I think this take is on the cynical side. A more charitable interpretation would be what they say (but maybe I'm being naive): that they don't want to break the rules to fix what someone else broke by breaking the rules. I'm not sure what you mean by "they consistently come up with the exact small number of Democrats needed to push legislation and bills that the party proposes to be against" -- if you mean the Republicans manage to get some Democrats to "switch sides" -- it's important to remember that this is how everything used to get done. Check the old votes: party-line was less common back in the day. And even now, Democrats tolerate members with differing opinions far more than the GOP does, and it shows in their voting patterns.
- deaux 9mo ago
  You're not just being naive, you're ignoring the blatant reality. 2016 DNC is enough evidence that yes, the core of the party is very much in on it.
  - gcanyon 9mo ago
    Can you expand on this, because I'm not understanding what your grief with the 2016 DNC is. I'll help speed the process saying: 1. I voted for Bernie in the primary 2. I fully recognize -- and we all should -- that the DNC is not beholden to us to run the primary in a particular way. Until some point in the 20th century nominees were literally decided in backroom deals without primaries influencing anything. So the idea that they "robbed" us of the Bernie candidacy doesn't hold sway with me (if that's what you're arguing) even though I supported him myself.
    - deaux 9mo ago
      The issue isn't not choosing Bernie, it's knowingly picking the only candidate who could possibly lose. Because as GP said, they're in on the game. The goal wasn't to pick who they sincerely believed to be the best candidate for the country, including both fitness and likelihood of winning. So it's theatre, as they pretend to put the populace first, but clearly they don't.
      - parasubvert 9mo ago
        Or perhaps, the base and establishment of the Democratic Party (ie. moderate black people) rejected Bernie because they felt he was a bad choice. This Bernie trutherism is really getting old, it's been disproven so many times.
        deaux 9mo ago
        You're reading things that aren't there. There was an endless supply of other options, not just Bernie. Projecting things onto others is getting old.

deaux 9mo ago

One willing to break the norms and campaigning on this in Trump-like weasel words would landslide the next election. Not a chance in hell that'd be allowed to happen though, as big tech, the DNC, and the rest of the capital class would put a stop to their platform long before.