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SiteChat: a postmortem. Or, the rise and fall of a society.

120 points by bkanber 14y ago

dns 14y ago
Burak hocam sen paylaşırsında ben vote etmem mi yahu :)
- bkanber 14y ago
  Anlamadim.. cok az Turkce biliyorum!
  - derleth 14y ago
    > Anlamadim.. cok az Turkce biliyorum! This, on the other hand, is translated quite well: > I beg your pardon .. I know very little Turkish!
    - bkanber 14y ago
      Finally, Google translate accurately translated something! Though I meant "anlamadim" as "I didn't understand you".. which is close enough to "I beg your pardon", I guess.
- derleth 14y ago
  > Burak hocam sen paylaşırsında ben vote etmem mi yahu Google Translate has a fun take on this: > I do not vote you fuck my teacher John paylaşırsında
  - bkanber 14y ago
    Ahaha... I think paylaşırsında means "shared" or something similar, and probably John was translated from my name, Burak. So the best I could figure out was something like: "Burak, my teacher, I won't vote your shared fuck" I still can't figure out what it means. My Turkish is very weak.
    - kayral 14y ago
      Google Translate probably failed because he used a negative question (without a question mark). "Wouldn't I vote for whatever you share, Burak, my teacher" is the literal translation. I have no idea why "yahu" is translated as fuck though. It means something like "oh my Lord" in Arabic, Turks often use it as a filler.
    - batuhanicoz 14y ago
      It's something like: > My teacher* Burak, wouldn't I give you a vote (up) when you share? By the way, his sentence is grammatically incorrect in Turkish too. * I've translated "hocam" as "my teacher" but it's not a accurate translation. In Modern Turkey it's slug which means something like "someone who you value their opinions". edit: kayral's translation is more accurate then mine.
danso 14y ago
This post epitomizes the fun of being a hacker
- bkanber 14y ago
  Absolutely! Just gotta be careful not to develop a God complex in situations like that...
- GuiA 14y ago
  Building and observing virtual communities is the most fun I've ever had in my life (dabbling self-proclaimed psychologists could write dozens of blog posts on the matter :) ). For almost 7 years now, I've been a moderator of a once very active (several thousand daily active users) and still somewhat active forum; and the mythologies, unspoken norms, cliques, memes, etc. that emerge are just fascinating. It's really a miniature world in itself. What's even more interesting is adding arbitrary game mechanics on top of it. I've built a couple PHP webgames when I was in college, and while none of them became quite big, fascinating patterns emerged. In most of them, I would, by design, let as many elements as possible be up to the players; and you end up with micro-societies that tend to show the same basic behavioral patterns as our own, just on a smaller scale. For example in one of them instead of just collecting resources and spending them to build weapons like most games of the genre do, the game would force you to join a coalition where a player-elected leader would decide how to spend resources collected by the players. Players could plot to overthrow the leader, or re-elect him if they felt he was fair, but also smuggle resources to enemy coalitions, etc. In some coalitions, the leader tried to be fair and just, but that would ultimately lead to his demise; in some others, leaders would be dictators that the other players actually appreciated and supported; and in some others, the leaders would plot like crazy with some players while pretending to be honest publicly. Yeah, these experiments are fun and humans are fascinating :)
  - brador 14y ago
    Sounds fun. Any links to material on making Php games? Did you just link spam forums for users? What stops people playing?
akkartik 14y ago
This story reminds me of http://www.metafilter.com/98848/The-Post-That-Cannot-Possibly-Go-Wrong#3435145 http://www.metafilter.com/98848/The-Post-That-Cannot-Possibl...
steve8918 14y ago
This post turned out to be much more interesting than I initially thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be another post-mortem on why a particular startup failed, but this was in fact much more interesting. The idea that this community bootstrapped itself, and self-evolved to the point of including things like trolls and "white knights" to me is extremely fascinating. The other thing interesting is the idea that it was able to get 10k users without any effort. There was definitely a market for this particular app, but only because it's free. I'm curious how much a monetization attempt would have hurt the bootstrapping effort, and whether or not it would be translatable to things like Instagram or Pinterest, which has zero monetization but a lot of users.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
ivix 14y ago
Interesting post. This is exactly the same kind of thing that happens on smaller IRC networks. Power groups come and go. Sometimes servers (with their own regular users) join the network and stay for a few months. Political compromises are made (you can enforce your crazy rule if you bring X number of users). Fascinating to watch, but a colossal time drain.
- bkanber 14y ago
  A good friend of mine, pixelmonkey, likes to say that SiteChat was just me rebuilding IRC as a Chrome Extension. I agree with that assessment!
pixelmonkey 14y ago
Burak is a world-class hacker. I am one of the friends whom he mentions "make fun of me because I write software entirely from scratch". It's true, I bust his chops about it (for example: he once wrote a search engine with PHP / MongoDB so he could learn about tokenization techniques / inverted indexes; luckily he threw it away for ElasticSearch eventually). But, that's what makes him an awesome programmer: he hacks things to learn, then builds thing to last. And he has fun doing it.
- bkanber 14y ago
  I think I have too much fun doing it. Isn't work supposed to be boring, or something?
adrianwaj 14y ago
I remember Pud let mobog go even when it had many thousands of users some years ago when mobiles could start taking photos and sending emails. Probably a mistake, ask him. But, why not get webmasters interested in it, give them a widget and a different color username for their site and watch what happens. - also put in a bitcoin address for donations - both for you and the webmaster.

120 points by bkanber 14y ago

dns 14y ago

Burak hocam sen paylaşırsında ben vote etmem mi yahu :)

bkanber 14y ago
Anlamadim.. cok az Turkce biliyorum!
- derleth 14y ago
  > Anlamadim.. cok az Turkce biliyorum! This, on the other hand, is translated quite well: > I beg your pardon .. I know very little Turkish!
  - bkanber 14y ago
    Finally, Google translate accurately translated something! Though I meant "anlamadim" as "I didn't understand you".. which is close enough to "I beg your pardon", I guess.
derleth 14y ago
> Burak hocam sen paylaşırsında ben vote etmem mi yahu Google Translate has a fun take on this: > I do not vote you fuck my teacher John paylaşırsında
- bkanber 14y ago
  Ahaha... I think paylaşırsında means "shared" or something similar, and probably John was translated from my name, Burak. So the best I could figure out was something like: "Burak, my teacher, I won't vote your shared fuck" I still can't figure out what it means. My Turkish is very weak.
  - kayral 14y ago
    Google Translate probably failed because he used a negative question (without a question mark). "Wouldn't I vote for whatever you share, Burak, my teacher" is the literal translation. I have no idea why "yahu" is translated as fuck though. It means something like "oh my Lord" in Arabic, Turks often use it as a filler.
  - batuhanicoz 14y ago
    It's something like: > My teacher* Burak, wouldn't I give you a vote (up) when you share? By the way, his sentence is grammatically incorrect in Turkish too. * I've translated "hocam" as "my teacher" but it's not a accurate translation. In Modern Turkey it's slug which means something like "someone who you value their opinions". edit: kayral's translation is more accurate then mine.

danso 14y ago

This post epitomizes the fun of being a hacker

bkanber 14y ago
Absolutely! Just gotta be careful not to develop a God complex in situations like that...
GuiA 14y ago
Building and observing virtual communities is the most fun I've ever had in my life (dabbling self-proclaimed psychologists could write dozens of blog posts on the matter :) ). For almost 7 years now, I've been a moderator of a once very active (several thousand daily active users) and still somewhat active forum; and the mythologies, unspoken norms, cliques, memes, etc. that emerge are just fascinating. It's really a miniature world in itself. What's even more interesting is adding arbitrary game mechanics on top of it. I've built a couple PHP webgames when I was in college, and while none of them became quite big, fascinating patterns emerged. In most of them, I would, by design, let as many elements as possible be up to the players; and you end up with micro-societies that tend to show the same basic behavioral patterns as our own, just on a smaller scale. For example in one of them instead of just collecting resources and spending them to build weapons like most games of the genre do, the game would force you to join a coalition where a player-elected leader would decide how to spend resources collected by the players. Players could plot to overthrow the leader, or re-elect him if they felt he was fair, but also smuggle resources to enemy coalitions, etc. In some coalitions, the leader tried to be fair and just, but that would ultimately lead to his demise; in some others, leaders would be dictators that the other players actually appreciated and supported; and in some others, the leaders would plot like crazy with some players while pretending to be honest publicly. Yeah, these experiments are fun and humans are fascinating :)
- brador 14y ago
  Sounds fun. Any links to material on making Php games? Did you just link spam forums for users? What stops people playing?

akkartik 14y ago

This story reminds me of http://www.metafilter.com/98848/The-Post-That-Cannot-Possibly-Go-Wrong#3435145 http://www.metafilter.com/98848/The-Post-That-Cannot-Possibl...

steve8918 14y ago

This post turned out to be much more interesting than I initially thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be another post-mortem on why a particular startup failed, but this was in fact much more interesting. The idea that this community bootstrapped itself, and self-evolved to the point of including things like trolls and "white knights" to me is extremely fascinating. The other thing interesting is the idea that it was able to get 10k users without any effort. There was definitely a market for this particular app, but only because it's free. I'm curious how much a monetization attempt would have hurt the bootstrapping effort, and whether or not it would be translatable to things like Instagram or Pinterest, which has zero monetization but a lot of users.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

ivix 14y ago

Interesting post. This is exactly the same kind of thing that happens on smaller IRC networks. Power groups come and go. Sometimes servers (with their own regular users) join the network and stay for a few months. Political compromises are made (you can enforce your crazy rule if you bring X number of users). Fascinating to watch, but a colossal time drain.

bkanber 14y ago
A good friend of mine, pixelmonkey, likes to say that SiteChat was just me rebuilding IRC as a Chrome Extension. I agree with that assessment!

pixelmonkey 14y ago

Burak is a world-class hacker. I am one of the friends whom he mentions "make fun of me because I write software entirely from scratch". It's true, I bust his chops about it (for example: he once wrote a search engine with PHP / MongoDB so he could learn about tokenization techniques / inverted indexes; luckily he threw it away for ElasticSearch eventually). But, that's what makes him an awesome programmer: he hacks things to learn, then builds thing to last. And he has fun doing it.

bkanber 14y ago
I think I have too much fun doing it. Isn't work supposed to be boring, or something?

adrianwaj 14y ago

I remember Pud let mobog go even when it had many thousands of users some years ago when mobiles could start taking photos and sending emails. Probably a mistake, ask him. But, why not get webmasters interested in it, give them a widget and a different color username for their site and watch what happens. - also put in a bitcoin address for donations - both for you and the webmaster.