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I really don’t understand why in the West there is nobody in the streets to protest but there was so many people for Palestine… Where are the people?

by bdelmas 9mo ago

V__ 9mo ago
Because the western governments support Israel, thus a protests' goal is mainly aimed at changing that. How many westerns governments support Iran?
s_dev 9mo ago
There probably isn't the same awareness. This is the first I'm hearing of a massacre in Iran. It's so hard to keep up with the news these days and for many it's just recommended to avoid it because it's all outrage generation now. The EU has been massively occupied with threats to invade Greenland for the past month along with the subsequent media attention, so that has saturated the news cycle.
throw310822 9mo ago
Because the far worse Palestine massacre was perpetrated by an ally of the West, defended by western politicians and opinion makers, financed with western money and armed with western weapons. Then it makes sense to protest against your country's complicity. Protesting in your country against an enemy country that has been subjected already to all kinds of sanctions and military attacks makes little sense.
- apical_dendrite 9mo ago
  Did you also think that protests of the Darfur genocide were pointless?
  - throw310822 9mo ago
    Not sure. Did you participate in them? What were they asking for?
adriand 9mo ago
I’m not sure if this is an honest question or not, but I’ll treat it as such, even though you could answer your own question quite easily. The West is not complicit in the actions of the Iranian regime in any way that is similar to the situation with Israel. We are not arming the Iranians with the weapons they turn on civilians: very much not the case with Israel. Israel is treated like a normal state, whereas Iran is an international pariah and the subject of crippling sanctions. I could go on. The point is that westerners protest the actions of Israel because we believe we are part of the problem and that our protest might make a difference. In fact, we believe - quite rightly - that if the US had conditioned military assistance to Israel on appropriate care for civilians, then the awful tragedy that unfolded in Gaza could have been averted. Similar levers for changing the behaviour of Iran do not exist.
- z7 9mo ago
  > The West is not complicit in the actions of the Iranian regime What about the 1953 CIA/MI6 coup that overthrew Iran's elected prime minister?
- apical_dendrite 9mo ago
  If the US alliance with Israel is the reason why this conflict generated so much protest activity, then why didn't the pro-Palestinian left object to US ally Saudi Arabia's bombing campaign and blockade in Yemen? The US arms the Saudis. Much of what happened in Yemen is very similar to what happened in Gaza (airstrikes that hit civilians, hunger caused by blockading imports, etc) And there have absolutely been examples of mass protest movements against regimes that are hostile to the US that are committing crimes against humanity. Years ago I went to a huge demonstration about the genocide in Darfur on the national mall in Washington. Raising awareness of what is happening and putting pressure on the Iranian regime (and on Western governments) can have an impact regardless of whether or not the West is hostile to Iran.
- neoromantique 9mo ago
  >In fact, we believe - quite rightly - that if the US had conditioned military assistance to Israel on appropriate care for civilians, then the awful tragedy that unfolded in Gaza could have been averted. What you saw in Gaza was ALREADY incredible levels of care and restraint (that has cost many Israeli soldiers their lives) to minimize civilian harm, when fighting against an enemy that benefits from increasing said harm.
mikkupikku 9mo ago
Palestine had a ton of easily accessible video evidence, and not just from the victim's side but also lots of "hot takes" from the Israeli side as well, lots of talk from Israeli civilians and government officials about how there are no innocent civilians in Gaza and other deranged plainly genocidal remarks. In other words, there can be no reasonable doubt about what was going on and the only question really is who's side you're on. With Iran, there's not a whole bunch of similar material, the death count estimates vary greatly from source to source, and we've got an untrustworthy president beating a war drum which probably makes people a bit more skeptical.. Atrocity propaganda to persuade a democracy to enter a war is something attentive people will be familiar with; incubator babies being tossed on the floor, dissidents being fed feet first into industrial grinders, people remember these stories preceding other wars and remember that evidence for the claims never materialized. Then there's the whole geopolitical angle where the Trump administration in fact supports Israel and Iran happens to be one of Israel's most powerful regional opponents. There are plenty of reasons to temper feelings of certainty.
bjourne 9mo ago
Oh, no, not this false dichotomy again! People protest to affect political change in their own countries. For example, that's why Americans now protest against ICE and not against the secret police in Turkmenistan. In my country, the government recently signed a secret arms deal with Israel to sell it weapons. Weapons that are then used to maim children. I don't like that. Major politicians have said that Israel should be "thanked" for what it's doing in Gaza. I don't like that either. Hence, why I protest. If the Sionazi regime in Israel was isolated in the same way as the Islamic regime in Iran or the Taliban regime in Afghanistan people would protest less because there would be less political change to affect.
- idop 9mo ago
  People are vandalizing Jewish restaurants, synagogues and monuments; terrorizing Jewish people and students; and murdering random Jewish grandmothers on the streets to affect political change? Please.
- bdelmas 9mo ago
  > Oh, no, not this false dichotomy again! > People protest to affect political change in their own countries. Hu? What about Palestine? Is it the US? People can protest about anything they want. Foreign policy or international intervention (in any form) are 2 of them. If people think they need their government to do something about a foreign country they can protest. And many times when people have double nationality they can also protest for their own country. Protest is not only for political change in our own country. As much as people can protest for Palestine, people can also protest their own cause about what is happening in Iran.
dist-epoch 9mo ago
[flagged]
jcattle 9mo ago
There has been protests organized by the Iranian diaspora in Germany.
darrenf 9mo ago
People have been protesting in the UK. Fourteen arrested after protest at Iranian embassy: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y3g8glgxvo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y3g8glgxvo Protester climbs on to balcony of Iranian embassy in London: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy09yvd57x2o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy09yvd57x2o Silent protestors gather in solidarity with Iran: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4g1me23x7o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4g1me23x7o
- neoromantique 9mo ago
  I've been to the protest in Berlin, it's mostly Iranian diaspora there with all my "used-to-be-friends" that turned with Gaza stuff silent as ever.
brolumir 9mo ago
[flagged]
deaux 9mo ago
This has been said before on here, but the main reason here is because in the West (particularly the US and Germany) there was a large group among the general populace supporting the genocide in Gaza, but in the West there is no large group supporting the massacre in Iran. The latter is an extremely fringe position to hold on the level of flat-earthers. People either don't care or are against it. When there's such a consensus, there's less controversy, less to talk about.
diggyhole 9mo ago
Because the people who funded and organized the pro-palestinian marches were backed partly by China and Iran.
Maken 9mo ago
I don't remember my government sending bombs to the Ayatollah so they can keep carpe-bombing Tehran. Protests serve to force your government to take action. i honestly at this point don't see what could mine to to stop this. Given the sanctions are not working, the only option to change Iran is maybe a direct intervention like Syria. And that sure worked great.
direwolf20 9mo ago
There's nothing western governments can do to stop this. There are no demands western people are making to their western governments. While for Palestine, people want our governments to stop giving bombs to the attackers.
- mhb 9mo ago
  Iran gave the weapons to the attackers.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    I'm pretty sure Iran and Israel are enemies. Israel picked a fight with every single country in the region, to my knowledge, except for the other USA allies.
    - mhb 9mo ago
      > Israel picked a fight Right. By existing.
      - direwolf20 9mo ago
        By invading and attacking.
        mhb 9mo ago
        Nope
- Kennel5527 9mo ago
  There are very clear and easy things that those governments can do to stop all of this. Isolate the regime. 1. Declare irgc a terrorist organisation, establish sanctions for them and their families, mostly living abroad, block their assets abroad (like we did with some of the Russians involved with Ukraine) 2. Close all embassies in Iran 3. Cut all diplomatic ties with the regime. This will completely isolate the current regime. Cut the safety net of the IRGC, and close the tap of money, effectively this will reduce close zero the money flows tha sustain all this and make the system very likely collapse. Why we don’t do it? I guess oil sales to India and China are a good starting point. Then there’s the support to Russia with weapons and tech for Ukraine ‘special campaign’, and let’s not add the fact that a destabilised Middle East is so convenient to so many.

I really don’t understand why in the West there is nobody in the streets to protest but there was so many people for Palestine… Where are the people?

by bdelmas 9mo ago

I really don’t understand why in the West there is nobody in the streets to protest but there was so many people for Palestine… Where are the people?

V__ 9mo ago

Because the western governments support Israel, thus a protests' goal is mainly aimed at changing that. How many westerns governments support Iran?

s_dev 9mo ago

There probably isn't the same awareness. This is the first I'm hearing of a massacre in Iran. It's so hard to keep up with the news these days and for many it's just recommended to avoid it because it's all outrage generation now. The EU has been massively occupied with threats to invade Greenland for the past month along with the subsequent media attention, so that has saturated the news cycle.

throw310822 9mo ago

Because the far worse Palestine massacre was perpetrated by an ally of the West, defended by western politicians and opinion makers, financed with western money and armed with western weapons. Then it makes sense to protest against your country's complicity. Protesting in your country against an enemy country that has been subjected already to all kinds of sanctions and military attacks makes little sense.

apical_dendrite 9mo ago
Did you also think that protests of the Darfur genocide were pointless?
- throw310822 9mo ago
  Not sure. Did you participate in them? What were they asking for?

adriand 9mo ago

I’m not sure if this is an honest question or not, but I’ll treat it as such, even though you could answer your own question quite easily. The West is not complicit in the actions of the Iranian regime in any way that is similar to the situation with Israel. We are not arming the Iranians with the weapons they turn on civilians: very much not the case with Israel. Israel is treated like a normal state, whereas Iran is an international pariah and the subject of crippling sanctions. I could go on. The point is that westerners protest the actions of Israel because we believe we are part of the problem and that our protest might make a difference. In fact, we believe - quite rightly - that if the US had conditioned military assistance to Israel on appropriate care for civilians, then the awful tragedy that unfolded in Gaza could have been averted. Similar levers for changing the behaviour of Iran do not exist.

z7 9mo ago
> The West is not complicit in the actions of the Iranian regime What about the 1953 CIA/MI6 coup that overthrew Iran's elected prime minister?
apical_dendrite 9mo ago
If the US alliance with Israel is the reason why this conflict generated so much protest activity, then why didn't the pro-Palestinian left object to US ally Saudi Arabia's bombing campaign and blockade in Yemen? The US arms the Saudis. Much of what happened in Yemen is very similar to what happened in Gaza (airstrikes that hit civilians, hunger caused by blockading imports, etc) And there have absolutely been examples of mass protest movements against regimes that are hostile to the US that are committing crimes against humanity. Years ago I went to a huge demonstration about the genocide in Darfur on the national mall in Washington. Raising awareness of what is happening and putting pressure on the Iranian regime (and on Western governments) can have an impact regardless of whether or not the West is hostile to Iran.
neoromantique 9mo ago
>In fact, we believe - quite rightly - that if the US had conditioned military assistance to Israel on appropriate care for civilians, then the awful tragedy that unfolded in Gaza could have been averted. What you saw in Gaza was ALREADY incredible levels of care and restraint (that has cost many Israeli soldiers their lives) to minimize civilian harm, when fighting against an enemy that benefits from increasing said harm.

mikkupikku 9mo ago

Palestine had a ton of easily accessible video evidence, and not just from the victim's side but also lots of "hot takes" from the Israeli side as well, lots of talk from Israeli civilians and government officials about how there are no innocent civilians in Gaza and other deranged plainly genocidal remarks. In other words, there can be no reasonable doubt about what was going on and the only question really is who's side you're on. With Iran, there's not a whole bunch of similar material, the death count estimates vary greatly from source to source, and we've got an untrustworthy president beating a war drum which probably makes people a bit more skeptical.. Atrocity propaganda to persuade a democracy to enter a war is something attentive people will be familiar with; incubator babies being tossed on the floor, dissidents being fed feet first into industrial grinders, people remember these stories preceding other wars and remember that evidence for the claims never materialized. Then there's the whole geopolitical angle where the Trump administration in fact supports Israel and Iran happens to be one of Israel's most powerful regional opponents. There are plenty of reasons to temper feelings of certainty.

bjourne 9mo ago

Oh, no, not this false dichotomy again! People protest to affect political change in their own countries. For example, that's why Americans now protest against ICE and not against the secret police in Turkmenistan. In my country, the government recently signed a secret arms deal with Israel to sell it weapons. Weapons that are then used to maim children. I don't like that. Major politicians have said that Israel should be "thanked" for what it's doing in Gaza. I don't like that either. Hence, why I protest. If the Sionazi regime in Israel was isolated in the same way as the Islamic regime in Iran or the Taliban regime in Afghanistan people would protest less because there would be less political change to affect.

idop 9mo ago
People are vandalizing Jewish restaurants, synagogues and monuments; terrorizing Jewish people and students; and murdering random Jewish grandmothers on the streets to affect political change? Please.
bdelmas 9mo ago
> Oh, no, not this false dichotomy again! > People protest to affect political change in their own countries. Hu? What about Palestine? Is it the US? People can protest about anything they want. Foreign policy or international intervention (in any form) are 2 of them. If people think they need their government to do something about a foreign country they can protest. And many times when people have double nationality they can also protest for their own country. Protest is not only for political change in our own country. As much as people can protest for Palestine, people can also protest their own cause about what is happening in Iran.

dist-epoch 9mo ago

[flagged]

jcattle 9mo ago

There has been protests organized by the Iranian diaspora in Germany.

darrenf 9mo ago

People have been protesting in the UK. Fourteen arrested after protest at Iranian embassy: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y3g8glgxvo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y3g8glgxvo Protester climbs on to balcony of Iranian embassy in London: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy09yvd57x2o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy09yvd57x2o Silent protestors gather in solidarity with Iran: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4g1me23x7o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4g1me23x7o

neoromantique 9mo ago
I've been to the protest in Berlin, it's mostly Iranian diaspora there with all my "used-to-be-friends" that turned with Gaza stuff silent as ever.

brolumir 9mo ago

[flagged]

deaux 9mo ago

This has been said before on here, but the main reason here is because in the West (particularly the US and Germany) there was a large group among the general populace supporting the genocide in Gaza, but in the West there is no large group supporting the massacre in Iran. The latter is an extremely fringe position to hold on the level of flat-earthers. People either don't care or are against it. When there's such a consensus, there's less controversy, less to talk about.

diggyhole 9mo ago

Because the people who funded and organized the pro-palestinian marches were backed partly by China and Iran.

Maken 9mo ago

I don't remember my government sending bombs to the Ayatollah so they can keep carpe-bombing Tehran. Protests serve to force your government to take action. i honestly at this point don't see what could mine to to stop this. Given the sanctions are not working, the only option to change Iran is maybe a direct intervention like Syria. And that sure worked great.

direwolf20 9mo ago

There's nothing western governments can do to stop this. There are no demands western people are making to their western governments. While for Palestine, people want our governments to stop giving bombs to the attackers.

mhb 9mo ago
Iran gave the weapons to the attackers.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  I'm pretty sure Iran and Israel are enemies. Israel picked a fight with every single country in the region, to my knowledge, except for the other USA allies.
  - mhb 9mo ago
    > Israel picked a fight Right. By existing.
    - direwolf20 9mo ago
      By invading and attacking.
      - mhb 9mo ago
        Nope
Kennel5527 9mo ago
There are very clear and easy things that those governments can do to stop all of this. Isolate the regime. 1. Declare irgc a terrorist organisation, establish sanctions for them and their families, mostly living abroad, block their assets abroad (like we did with some of the Russians involved with Ukraine) 2. Close all embassies in Iran 3. Cut all diplomatic ties with the regime. This will completely isolate the current regime. Cut the safety net of the IRGC, and close the tap of money, effectively this will reduce close zero the money flows tha sustain all this and make the system very likely collapse. Why we don’t do it? I guess oil sales to India and China are a good starting point. Then there’s the support to Russia with weapons and tech for Ukraine ‘special campaign’, and let’s not add the fact that a destabilised Middle East is so convenient to so many.