8 ms·

> The new AirTag is designed with the environment in mind, with 85 percent recycled plastic in the enclosure, 100 percent recycled rare earth elements in all m

> The new AirTag is designed with the environment in mind, with 85 percent recycled plastic in the enclosure, 100 percent recycled rare earth elements in all magnets, and 100 percent recycled gold plating in all Apple-designed printed circuit boards. The paper packaging is 100 percent fiber-based and can be easily recycled. I'm no material scientist, but this seems pretty impressive to me that Apple's economy of scale can pull this off, and upgrade the device capabilities, for less than $30 USD.

insane_dreamer 8mo ago
but then the fob also costs $30 :/
- vostrocity 8mo ago
  Just buy a generic Find My tracker on Amazon for about $5.
ahoka 8mo ago
This is just green washing on the level of “93.65% natural ingredients”.
- reaperducer 8mo ago
  This is just green washing on the level of “93.65% natural ingredients”. I keep seeing products in the supermarket with big "Made with REAL ingredients!" labels on them. As opposed to what? Imaginary ingredients? Classico pasta sauce is the most recent offender.
  - ExoticPearTree 8mo ago
    Chemicals. That’s what they mean by real ingredients: no chemicals. Like orange juice: can be from a chemical powder or real oranges.
    - wmeredith 8mo ago
      But that's total nonsense. Everything in our physical world (including water, air, food, and human bodies) is made of chemicals. They can be naturally occurring or artificially manufactured.
      - ExoticPearTree 8mo ago
        You can nitpick and be pedantic about the wording I used, but if you equate artificial flavors or ingredients with natural ones…
        ryandrake 8mo ago
        Is it really pedantic? Everything is ultimately a chemical compound. H2O is a chemical. Where do you draw the line between "chemicals" and "not chemicals"? Is it more about what you can find in nature? You can find acetone in nature.
        GuinansEyebrows 8mo ago
        yeah, this is kind of a definitional example of pedantry. you probably understand what people are trying to say when they talk about "chemicals" but instead of engaging with the actual conversation, you spin off a metanarrative to pick apart the word choice as if that's directly relevant to the point they're trying to discuss. not trying to pick on you specifically, because sure everything's a chemical, and i don't really care to fight about that, but you asked :)
        ryandrake 8mo ago
        "Chemical" is just a really, really vague and poor word choice. I honestly don't understand what people are trying to say when they use it. Food and chemistry are inextricably intertwined. You can't even talk about food without talking about all of the various components food is made up of. Not a single food item out there isn't made up of chemicals. Some found in nature, some created in a lab or factory process. Some healthy, some not. Some with long names, some with short names. Some have effects on food taste, longevity, appearance. Some are inert. It's really a meaningless word to use in the context of one's food.
  - sib 8mo ago
    After all, Polonium is a REAL ingredient - but I would't want it in my pasta sauce...
- port11 8mo ago
  What level of materials recycling would be required for you to not consider it green washing? It’s a genuine question, since I don’t like Apple and agree that we buy tons of stuff we don’t really need. That said, our bicycles can’t be insured anymore, but having AirTags at least alleviates some of the angst over leaving them in public places.
  - GoatInGrey 8mo ago
    Recycled plastics actually produce microplastics more than virgin plastics do. Some studies on recycled polyester garments found that they dump an additional 50% more or so into the environment than non-recycled polyester fabrics. And those non-recycled fabrics already release enormous quantities over their lifespan into the water supply and open air (via your dryer exhaust) already. Dumb example for the sake of discussion, you could understand why recycled plutonium would not be a healthy thing to weave a sweater out of. It's less about the recycling and more about the material itself.
    - port11 8mo ago
      I’m aware, which is why we don’t buy products with recycled synthetics fabrics for our baby. Ironic, since so many brands are hellbent on promoting the recycled fiber as more sustainable. But: the AirTag is made of hard plastic (polypropylene?) through injection moulding. I’m not sure it leaks even a tenth of what fiber would. Just a thought :)
      - vostrocity 8mo ago
        Recycled polyester is crap, just like virgin polyester. It's just a way for brands to make it seem like they're hip and sustainable, when you're basically wearing crude oil on your body.
    - adastra22 8mo ago
      Plutonium is probably safer than some of the materials we do use in clothes.
  - 8mo ago
- thiht 8mo ago
  It’s never possible for things to be good with people like you. It’s not 100% recycled, which would be better. But surely, this is better than 0% recycled??
  - GoatInGrey 8mo ago
    Ironically, it's worse. I just wrote another comment about this. Recycled plastics carry more toxic load and shed more (and more fragmented) microplastics into the environment. Recycled plastics only win out on carbon emissions. Moral of the story: plastic is just not good. Avoid buying things made out of ANY kind plastic if you are going to regularly wash and mechanically agitate them. You won't eliminate 100% of washed plastic in your life, but it's surprisingly easy to get rid of 80% of it without sacrificing quality of life.
    - thiht 8mo ago
      That's good to know. My understanding though is that they don't use 100% recycled plastic to prevent that? I thought the ~20% non recycled plastic was kinda "stabilizing" the whole thing but maybe that's not true
      - adastra22 8mo ago
        Nope that's not true. All recycled plastic is bad.
jsheard 8mo ago
Building an attachment point into the tag itself is still beyond current technology though. We just don't know how to do it.
- 542458 8mo ago
  Different people want different attachment types (or no attachment point at all), so it makes sense for that to be external. I've used other trackers with integrated attachment points, and because the attachment point has to be very compact it tends to be flimsy or hard to fit.. vs the Apple one where you can add a larger attachment point that makes sense to you.
  - peddling-brink 8mo ago
    Are you trying to say that the AirTag is so strictly utilitarian, that they couldn’t have found a spot for a lanyard hole? I disagree, they could have, they didn’t want to. Beyond the look, this sure panders to their accessory partners. How big of an industry is the phone case? Should it even exist? The audacity.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - wang_li 8mo ago
      Somebody take an x-ray so where know where to drill our own holes.
      - dylan604 8mo ago
        Already been done https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/05/02/x-rays-show-how-apple-tightly-packed-airtags-internals https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/05/02/x-rays-show-how-a...
        xattt 8mo ago
        > For the initial disassembly, the AirTag is said to be the hardest to open to access the battery. Though all three could be opened by hand, the AirTag is suggested to be the hardest due to the lack of divots for grip. Does the author lack thumbs? It’s easy to twist the battery open.
Klaster_1 8mo ago
How does that compare to previous AirTag? Whats the industry baseline for all of those, maybe gold is 100% recycled anyways in most products?
- port11 8mo ago
  This is a great question. For example, the Pixel 10 has a similar recycling profile, although with less recycled plastic.
colechristensen 8mo ago
The wholesale material costs for the plastic, gold plating, and magnets is all just pennies, if that.
lucideer 8mo ago
I'd be a little wary of these numbers as regulation around advertising these kinds of figures normally permits mass balance systems[0] (which imo is tantamount to straight-up lying). Mass balance is better than nothing I guess, & I understand the practical challenges with going further, but ultimately it's not what's implied by the marketing. [0] https://www.iscc-system.org/news/mass-balance-explained/ https://www.iscc-system.org/news/mass-balance-explained/
Noaidi 8mo ago
Just stating the obvious that not buying one of these things that we never seemed to need until they told us we needed it is the only way to have "the environment in mind".
- reaperducer 8mo ago
  Just stating the obvious that not buying one of these thing that we never seemed to need until they told us we needed it I never thought I needed one until my wife lost her car keys, and the Fiat dealer charged $1,200 for a replacement. And it's not even the electronics that makes them so expensive. Modern car keys aren't like the 1970's where it's just a piece of metal with the edges shaved off. Those little key cutting kiosks at Home Depot can't cope with today's complex engraving.
  - kstrauser 8mo ago
    I have cats. I can’t count on things being where I left them.
- stephenr 8mo ago
  > one of these things that we never seemed to need until they told us we needed it Found the guy who literally never leaves his studio apartment and has thus never lost baggage, keys, etc.
- actuallyalys 8mo ago
  This feels like a good tradeoff as far as gadgets go. It doesn’t take finding that many objects for it to make up the energy cost to manufacture the AirTag. They do require periodic battery replacements but I imagine it’s still a net savings or pretty negligible cost. I’d love to see a more formal analysis, though.
CGMthrowaway 8mo ago
I don't see old-gen airtags for sale on the website. Are they throwing them all out?
- mambo_giro 8mo ago
  Apple rarely offers direct discounts of closeout or excess merchandise. Instead to clear out back stock they’ll work with partner retailers (Amazon, Best Buy, etc.) who don’t mind the brand perception associated with offering deeper discounts. First-gen AirTags have been on sale on Amazon frequently over the last year, and they’ll probably drop the price again soon.
dlcarrier 8mo ago
Recycled metals have always been cost effective. Recycled plastic is much more expensive than virgin plastic, but it's a very small materials cost to start with, likely totaling only a few cents.
- adastra22 8mo ago
  Recycled plastic usually isn't the same quality though.
vablings 8mo ago
Apple have pretty good recycling processes. I think they also partner with mobile carriers on trade ins too https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/04/apple-expands-global-recycling-programs/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/04/apple-expands-global-...
ghm2199 8mo ago
> They are then combined with scrap from select manufacturing sites and, for the first time, cobalt recovered through this process is now being used to make brand-new Apple batteries — a true closed loop for this precious material. Do they disclose who the manufacturers are and what standards do they adhere to when recovering cobalt from scrapped batteries?

insane_dreamer 8mo ago

but then the fob also costs $30 :/

vostrocity 8mo ago
Just buy a generic Find My tracker on Amazon for about $5.

ahoka 8mo ago

This is just green washing on the level of “93.65% natural ingredients”.

reaperducer 8mo ago
This is just green washing on the level of “93.65% natural ingredients”. I keep seeing products in the supermarket with big "Made with REAL ingredients!" labels on them. As opposed to what? Imaginary ingredients? Classico pasta sauce is the most recent offender.
- ExoticPearTree 8mo ago
  Chemicals. That’s what they mean by real ingredients: no chemicals. Like orange juice: can be from a chemical powder or real oranges.
  - wmeredith 8mo ago
    But that's total nonsense. Everything in our physical world (including water, air, food, and human bodies) is made of chemicals. They can be naturally occurring or artificially manufactured.
    - ExoticPearTree 8mo ago
      You can nitpick and be pedantic about the wording I used, but if you equate artificial flavors or ingredients with natural ones…
      - ryandrake 8mo ago
        Is it really pedantic? Everything is ultimately a chemical compound. H2O is a chemical. Where do you draw the line between "chemicals" and "not chemicals"? Is it more about what you can find in nature? You can find acetone in nature.
        GuinansEyebrows 8mo ago
        yeah, this is kind of a definitional example of pedantry. you probably understand what people are trying to say when they talk about "chemicals" but instead of engaging with the actual conversation, you spin off a metanarrative to pick apart the word choice as if that's directly relevant to the point they're trying to discuss. not trying to pick on you specifically, because sure everything's a chemical, and i don't really care to fight about that, but you asked :)
        ryandrake 8mo ago
        "Chemical" is just a really, really vague and poor word choice. I honestly don't understand what people are trying to say when they use it. Food and chemistry are inextricably intertwined. You can't even talk about food without talking about all of the various components food is made up of. Not a single food item out there isn't made up of chemicals. Some found in nature, some created in a lab or factory process. Some healthy, some not. Some with long names, some with short names. Some have effects on food taste, longevity, appearance. Some are inert. It's really a meaningless word to use in the context of one's food.
- sib 8mo ago
  After all, Polonium is a REAL ingredient - but I would't want it in my pasta sauce...
port11 8mo ago
What level of materials recycling would be required for you to not consider it green washing? It’s a genuine question, since I don’t like Apple and agree that we buy tons of stuff we don’t really need. That said, our bicycles can’t be insured anymore, but having AirTags at least alleviates some of the angst over leaving them in public places.
- GoatInGrey 8mo ago
  Recycled plastics actually produce microplastics more than virgin plastics do. Some studies on recycled polyester garments found that they dump an additional 50% more or so into the environment than non-recycled polyester fabrics. And those non-recycled fabrics already release enormous quantities over their lifespan into the water supply and open air (via your dryer exhaust) already. Dumb example for the sake of discussion, you could understand why recycled plutonium would not be a healthy thing to weave a sweater out of. It's less about the recycling and more about the material itself.
  - port11 8mo ago
    I’m aware, which is why we don’t buy products with recycled synthetics fabrics for our baby. Ironic, since so many brands are hellbent on promoting the recycled fiber as more sustainable. But: the AirTag is made of hard plastic (polypropylene?) through injection moulding. I’m not sure it leaks even a tenth of what fiber would. Just a thought :)
    - vostrocity 8mo ago
      Recycled polyester is crap, just like virgin polyester. It's just a way for brands to make it seem like they're hip and sustainable, when you're basically wearing crude oil on your body.
  - adastra22 8mo ago
    Plutonium is probably safer than some of the materials we do use in clothes.
- 8mo ago
thiht 8mo ago
It’s never possible for things to be good with people like you. It’s not 100% recycled, which would be better. But surely, this is better than 0% recycled??
- GoatInGrey 8mo ago
  Ironically, it's worse. I just wrote another comment about this. Recycled plastics carry more toxic load and shed more (and more fragmented) microplastics into the environment. Recycled plastics only win out on carbon emissions. Moral of the story: plastic is just not good. Avoid buying things made out of ANY kind plastic if you are going to regularly wash and mechanically agitate them. You won't eliminate 100% of washed plastic in your life, but it's surprisingly easy to get rid of 80% of it without sacrificing quality of life.
  - thiht 8mo ago
    That's good to know. My understanding though is that they don't use 100% recycled plastic to prevent that? I thought the ~20% non recycled plastic was kinda "stabilizing" the whole thing but maybe that's not true
    - adastra22 8mo ago
      Nope that's not true. All recycled plastic is bad.

jsheard 8mo ago

Building an attachment point into the tag itself is still beyond current technology though. We just don't know how to do it.

542458 8mo ago
Different people want different attachment types (or no attachment point at all), so it makes sense for that to be external. I've used other trackers with integrated attachment points, and because the attachment point has to be very compact it tends to be flimsy or hard to fit.. vs the Apple one where you can add a larger attachment point that makes sense to you.
- peddling-brink 8mo ago
  Are you trying to say that the AirTag is so strictly utilitarian, that they couldn’t have found a spot for a lanyard hole? I disagree, they could have, they didn’t want to. Beyond the look, this sure panders to their accessory partners. How big of an industry is the phone case? Should it even exist? The audacity.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
  - wang_li 8mo ago
    Somebody take an x-ray so where know where to drill our own holes.
    - dylan604 8mo ago
      Already been done https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/05/02/x-rays-show-how-apple-tightly-packed-airtags-internals https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/05/02/x-rays-show-how-a...
      - xattt 8mo ago
        > For the initial disassembly, the AirTag is said to be the hardest to open to access the battery. Though all three could be opened by hand, the AirTag is suggested to be the hardest due to the lack of divots for grip. Does the author lack thumbs? It’s easy to twist the battery open.

Klaster_1 8mo ago

How does that compare to previous AirTag? Whats the industry baseline for all of those, maybe gold is 100% recycled anyways in most products?

port11 8mo ago
This is a great question. For example, the Pixel 10 has a similar recycling profile, although with less recycled plastic.

colechristensen 8mo ago

The wholesale material costs for the plastic, gold plating, and magnets is all just pennies, if that.

lucideer 8mo ago

I'd be a little wary of these numbers as regulation around advertising these kinds of figures normally permits mass balance systems[0] (which imo is tantamount to straight-up lying). Mass balance is better than nothing I guess, & I understand the practical challenges with going further, but ultimately it's not what's implied by the marketing. [0] https://www.iscc-system.org/news/mass-balance-explained/ https://www.iscc-system.org/news/mass-balance-explained/

Noaidi 8mo ago

Just stating the obvious that not buying one of these things that we never seemed to need until they told us we needed it is the only way to have "the environment in mind".

reaperducer 8mo ago
Just stating the obvious that not buying one of these thing that we never seemed to need until they told us we needed it I never thought I needed one until my wife lost her car keys, and the Fiat dealer charged $1,200 for a replacement. And it's not even the electronics that makes them so expensive. Modern car keys aren't like the 1970's where it's just a piece of metal with the edges shaved off. Those little key cutting kiosks at Home Depot can't cope with today's complex engraving.
- kstrauser 8mo ago
  I have cats. I can’t count on things being where I left them.
stephenr 8mo ago
> one of these things that we never seemed to need until they told us we needed it Found the guy who literally never leaves his studio apartment and has thus never lost baggage, keys, etc.
actuallyalys 8mo ago
This feels like a good tradeoff as far as gadgets go. It doesn’t take finding that many objects for it to make up the energy cost to manufacture the AirTag. They do require periodic battery replacements but I imagine it’s still a net savings or pretty negligible cost. I’d love to see a more formal analysis, though.

CGMthrowaway 8mo ago

I don't see old-gen airtags for sale on the website. Are they throwing them all out?

mambo_giro 8mo ago
Apple rarely offers direct discounts of closeout or excess merchandise. Instead to clear out back stock they’ll work with partner retailers (Amazon, Best Buy, etc.) who don’t mind the brand perception associated with offering deeper discounts. First-gen AirTags have been on sale on Amazon frequently over the last year, and they’ll probably drop the price again soon.

dlcarrier 8mo ago

Recycled metals have always been cost effective. Recycled plastic is much more expensive than virgin plastic, but it's a very small materials cost to start with, likely totaling only a few cents.

adastra22 8mo ago
Recycled plastic usually isn't the same quality though.

vablings 8mo ago

Apple have pretty good recycling processes. I think they also partner with mobile carriers on trade ins too https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/04/apple-expands-global-recycling-programs/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/04/apple-expands-global-...

ghm2199 8mo ago

> They are then combined with scrap from select manufacturing sites and, for the first time, cobalt recovered through this process is now being used to make brand-new Apple batteries — a true closed loop for this precious material. Do they disclose who the manufacturers are and what standards do they adhere to when recovering cobalt from scrapped batteries?