4 ms·

There was an article about targeted advertising a number of years that really changed my perspective on it called, "Targeted Advertising Considered Harmful": ht

There was an article about targeted advertising a number of years that really changed my perspective on it called, "Targeted Advertising Considered Harmful": https://zgp.org/targeted-advertising-considered-harmful/ https://zgp.org/targeted-advertising-considered-harmful/ The basic idea is that the real value in advertising is as a signaling mechanism, and targeted advertising removes most of that signal. I feel like personalized pricing has some of the same issues, in that it erodes consumer trust and makes it more and more difficult for consumers to confidently spend their money in the market. I am not sure how we fix the problem, though, because it is a collective action problem; any individual company will need to use personalized pricing to compete, but that behavior will hurt the economy as a whole. I don't know the solution to this problem.

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
rjtavares 9mo ago
Why isn't making it illegal a solution?
wisty 9mo ago
There's bqsically IMO two types of ads - marketing and sales. Marketing ads are signalling, brand recognition, etc. You want the cool earbuds that everyone knows. You want to buy them from a big, reputable company with good r&d. Sales is simpler - click on the ad and buy the product. It tends to be a bit sleasier - sales doesn't care as long as it makes a sale. There's often a bit of tension between sales and marketing. A 50% ooff exploding offer can be good for sales in the short term, but can make the brand look cheap.
- aetherson 9mo ago
  The in-industry terms for these are "brand marketing" and "performance marketing," FWIW. Brand marketing is the first thing, performance marketing is what you're calling sales.
londons_explore 9mo ago
> that behavior will hurt the economy as a whole. I don't quite follow... Advertisers want their product sold. Consumers want to buy whichever product is most suitable for their needs (based on both price and performance), ad networks have every incentive to connect these two. In an ideal world an ad network would show me 10 ads for products I want to buy (ie. new shoes, ice cream, etc). I would have confidence that those products are the exact ones I want and that any more research would only show up inferior (worse value) products. The ad network gets to take no profit margin - since if it did, I could find that same product cheaper elsewhere. This leads to an equilibrium where the ad network shows mostly the perfect products - and charges a small margin - where the margin size is set to be slightly below my willingness to shop around for a better deal. Personalized pricing just represents different users estimated willingness to shop around - but if the model is correct, even those paying a higher price are happy with the situation or else they'd shop around.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  Ad networks have every incentive to lie to consumers to get a sale. If the strength of the economy is measured in total sales, that's great. If the strength of the economy is measured by consumer satisfaction, not so much. An ideal ad network would not show you a product ideal for you, but a misleading ad for the lowest-cost product you'll buy for the most expensive price, with 95% of the difference pocketed by the ad network.
- wongarsu 9mo ago
  Informing the target that a product exists is a small part of advertising. It's important for the small players, but for the big advertising spenders it's much more about communicating values, trustworthiness, emotions. Building a brand image, and maintaining brand awareness Just the fact that you are running an advertising campaign of a certain size used to be a signal in itself. Same with advertising in or for subcommunities. That signal is heavily dilluted by targeted advertising Similarly, personalized pricing is removing signal from the price. Sure, price was always a noisy signal, but better a noisy signal than no signal
  - 9mo ago
ares623 9mo ago
“Collective action” < union < regulation
- daveguy 9mo ago
  ... < union + regulation
  - ares623 9mo ago
    ... < democratic socialist republic without social media
    - kibwen 9mo ago
      You don't need to resort to communism, you can have a market economy where companies are owned by their own employees. It took millenia for humanity to dump its broke-ass monarchies for democracies, and yet we still haven't realized that our prevailing corporate structures are just the same broke-ass monarchies with a king at the top and the serfs laboring beneath.
      - wiml 9mo ago
        ares623 did say "democratic socialist"
duped 9mo ago
> I am not sure how we fix the problem Regulation that causes big business to lose money and rich people to be a little less wealthy so society is better
- ares623 9mo ago
  no that's crazy talk. There must be some super obscure technological solution to a societal problem. Ideally something that can be sold as a SaaS.
kruipen 9mo ago
Don't ban it, just require that next to the current price merchant displays low/high/median price for the same good/service in the last 30 days.
- LorenPechtel 9mo ago
  Exactly. Most of the icky stuff is based on a lack of consumer knowledge.
poulpy123 9mo ago
I remember a successful advertisement for a yogurt in the 90s with a naked woman in a shower (so not in the US). I remember in the 2000 ads for Nike (or another shoe brand) not even showing a shoe. Recently there was a (very nice) ad for a retail corp that became viral and didn't even talk about the retails the goal of advertising is not to inform, it is to sell, even if that means manipulating people.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

rjtavares 9mo ago

Why isn't making it illegal a solution?

wisty 9mo ago

There's bqsically IMO two types of ads - marketing and sales. Marketing ads are signalling, brand recognition, etc. You want the cool earbuds that everyone knows. You want to buy them from a big, reputable company with good r&d. Sales is simpler - click on the ad and buy the product. It tends to be a bit sleasier - sales doesn't care as long as it makes a sale. There's often a bit of tension between sales and marketing. A 50% ooff exploding offer can be good for sales in the short term, but can make the brand look cheap.

aetherson 9mo ago
The in-industry terms for these are "brand marketing" and "performance marketing," FWIW. Brand marketing is the first thing, performance marketing is what you're calling sales.

londons_explore 9mo ago

> that behavior will hurt the economy as a whole. I don't quite follow... Advertisers want their product sold. Consumers want to buy whichever product is most suitable for their needs (based on both price and performance), ad networks have every incentive to connect these two. In an ideal world an ad network would show me 10 ads for products I want to buy (ie. new shoes, ice cream, etc). I would have confidence that those products are the exact ones I want and that any more research would only show up inferior (worse value) products. The ad network gets to take no profit margin - since if it did, I could find that same product cheaper elsewhere. This leads to an equilibrium where the ad network shows mostly the perfect products - and charges a small margin - where the margin size is set to be slightly below my willingness to shop around for a better deal. Personalized pricing just represents different users estimated willingness to shop around - but if the model is correct, even those paying a higher price are happy with the situation or else they'd shop around.

direwolf20 9mo ago
Ad networks have every incentive to lie to consumers to get a sale. If the strength of the economy is measured in total sales, that's great. If the strength of the economy is measured by consumer satisfaction, not so much. An ideal ad network would not show you a product ideal for you, but a misleading ad for the lowest-cost product you'll buy for the most expensive price, with 95% of the difference pocketed by the ad network.
wongarsu 9mo ago
Informing the target that a product exists is a small part of advertising. It's important for the small players, but for the big advertising spenders it's much more about communicating values, trustworthiness, emotions. Building a brand image, and maintaining brand awareness Just the fact that you are running an advertising campaign of a certain size used to be a signal in itself. Same with advertising in or for subcommunities. That signal is heavily dilluted by targeted advertising Similarly, personalized pricing is removing signal from the price. Sure, price was always a noisy signal, but better a noisy signal than no signal
- 9mo ago

ares623 9mo ago

“Collective action” < union < regulation

daveguy 9mo ago
... < union + regulation
- ares623 9mo ago
  ... < democratic socialist republic without social media
  - kibwen 9mo ago
    You don't need to resort to communism, you can have a market economy where companies are owned by their own employees. It took millenia for humanity to dump its broke-ass monarchies for democracies, and yet we still haven't realized that our prevailing corporate structures are just the same broke-ass monarchies with a king at the top and the serfs laboring beneath.
    - wiml 9mo ago
      ares623 did say "democratic socialist"

duped 9mo ago

> I am not sure how we fix the problem Regulation that causes big business to lose money and rich people to be a little less wealthy so society is better

ares623 9mo ago
no that's crazy talk. There must be some super obscure technological solution to a societal problem. Ideally something that can be sold as a SaaS.

kruipen 9mo ago

Don't ban it, just require that next to the current price merchant displays low/high/median price for the same good/service in the last 30 days.

LorenPechtel 9mo ago
Exactly. Most of the icky stuff is based on a lack of consumer knowledge.

poulpy123 9mo ago

I remember a successful advertisement for a yogurt in the 90s with a naked woman in a shower (so not in the US). I remember in the 2000 ads for Nike (or another shoe brand) not even showing a shoe. Recently there was a (very nice) ad for a retail corp that became viral and didn't even talk about the retails the goal of advertising is not to inform, it is to sell, even if that means manipulating people.