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If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance, not political in form — test-fit

If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance, not political in form — test-fitting an imprecise definition. The fact it also reaches a firm conclusion (spoiler alert right there in the title) is depoliticized by allowing for malleable application. A benchmark article I will now go share elsewhere. What’s left to talk about? How to react. How it ends. Where we likely go from there. Where we should go.

azakai 9mo ago
If this interested you, here is another detailed and precise article by a historian, on the same topic: https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-definition-of-fascism/ https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-...
- ezst 9mo ago
  …and another one, much less academic in style and substance, but no less informative and relevant: https://scribe.rip/@carmitage/i-researched-every-attempt-to-stop-fascism-in-history-the-success-rate-is-0-a665e2e048a2 https://scribe.rip/@carmitage/i-researched-every-attempt-to-...
  - Kaibeezy 9mo ago
    Add the Umberto Eco Ur-Fascism linked below.
  - Jensson 9mo ago
    > I researched every Democratic attempt to stop fascism in history. the success rate after fascists were elected was 0%. Ergo Trump isn't fascist since he already was elected and democracy removed him once before. Otherwise they have to say that there has been one successful attempt for democracy to remove a fascist. Only reason Trump won the last election was that the democrats failed so hard at coming up with good candidates, if they had someone as good as John Biden before dementia Trump would have lost, trying to hide his dementia is why Trump rules today.
    - comfysocks 9mo ago
      Well he did try to overturn that election, but he failed. So I guess that makes him a failed fascist last time around. This time he’s trying much harder. Let’s make sure he fails again.
  - hn_throwaway_99 9mo ago
    To be honest I didn't find the historical parallels as convincing in this article. I'm glad the author did recognize that we are in uncharted waters, but I think another potential reason to believe that our current fascist government is a little bit more restrained than earlier ones is due to the same forces that allowed it to rise in the first place - that is, social media and instantly viral videos. What has happened since the Alex Pretti shooting was simply impossible in previous fascist governments. The administration can tell all the lies they want about it, but most of us have eyeballs, and we can see the multiple videos with frame-by-frame analysis. In the past, government propaganda would have been more effective in cases like this - it would have been a case of "who do you believe, team A or team B?" I don't have to believe either team, I just have to believe my own eyes.
    - ezst 9mo ago
      > The administration can tell all the lies they want about it, but most of us have eyeballs […] In the past, […] it would have been a case of "who do you believe, team A or team B?" Damn I wish I could share your optimism. If one thing, social media has induced more division, and generalised the idea that "if you are not with me, you are against me". We are at a point where many are demonstrably more comfortable staying in their bubble of lies than willing to seek the truth out of it. And truth is unfortunately overrated.
throw0101c 9mo ago
> If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance […] Also perhaps worth noting that David Frum, former speech writer to Dubya Bush, writes for The Atlantic (and has been against Trump from the start: see his book Trumpocracy): * https://www.theatlantic.com/author/david-frum/ https://www.theatlantic.com/author/david-frum/ So we're not just talking about 'leftists' criticizing these actions and policies.
- ikidd 9mo ago
  And was a pretty rabid conservative until the Trump era. He only left the Republicans in 2024, he was around for the first term. Maybe he's grown a spine.
  - throw0101c 9mo ago
    > He only left the Republicans in 2024, he was around for the first term. Yes, he hoped to fight from the inside, but recognized that the GOP had been taken over my inmates. In 2016 he voted for Clinton and urged others to do so: > Surely the American system of government is more robust than the Turkish or Hungarian or Polish or Malaysian or Italian systems. But that is not automatically true. It is true because of the active vigilance of freedom-loving citizens who put country first, party second. Not in many decades has that vigilance been required as it is required now. > Your hand may hesitate to put a mark beside the name, Hillary Clinton. You’re not doing it for her. The vote you cast is for the republic and the Constitution. * https://archive.is/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/dont-gamble-on-trump/506207/ https://archive.is/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...
- JeremyNT 9mo ago
  The left / right split isn't really meaningful in the United States right now. The split is currently between people who believe in and want a functional and equitable government, and those who are fine with a kleptocracy as long as they are personally the beneficiaries (or at least, the people they dislike suffer worse). People like Frum were quick to notice this and get on the correct side of it. Unfortunately, there are not enough Republicans who feel the same way to make much of a difference.
lossolo 9mo ago
> How it ends. Where we likely go from there. I highly recommend Anniversary https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12583926/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12583926/
ModernMech 9mo ago
It's nice but also endlessly frustrating and very very late, because what he regards as overuse of the term is really just people who were applying the term correctly for the past 10 years as people like the author refused to call a spade a spade. If the nascent fascist were discarded, people would have stopped saying it so much. The problem for people like the author is that other more astute individuals [1] correctly diagnosed the issue over a decade ago. All it took was for her to have grown up in Poland and to be a clinical psychologist who knows how to spot malignant narcissism. The rest fell into place because human nature is so... predictable. So while it's welcome for the author to finally catch up to the rest of us, it's a little late at this point. Also If people like the author had listened to more sensible people when they had started using the F word instead of dismissing them as hyperbolic, then we wouldn't be here. Also this bit: > Although Trump is term-limited, we must not expect that he and his MAGA loyalists will voluntarily turn over the White House to a Democrat in 2029, regardless of what the voters say—and the second insurrection will be far better organized than the first. shows the author is still a step behind. The correct framing is that the first insurrection succeeded. It continued after Jan 6 for 4 years, as Trump waged an information war contending he was the true winner of the election, and also a war on the judiciary to evade accountability. In that battle he evaded all accountability, nullified the impeachment clause of the Constitution, and also gained "Presidential Immunity" from his appointees on SCOTUS. He also nullified Section 3 of the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which prohibits anyone who has previously taken an oath to support the Constitution from holding state or federal office if they have "engaged in insurrection or rebellion" against the US. Trump caused an insurrection, and yet somehow he was allowed to run and hold office again. So the first insurrection was successful, the perpetrators got away with it, and they assumed total power over the government they attacked after evading judicial accountability and waging an information war on the population. Anyway, next time there won't be a need for an insurrection, because the only reason there was one in 2021 was because plans A through G failed -- they couldn't get votes in Georgia, they couldn't overturn any state, they didn't win any court cases, they couldn't get people to go along with their "alternate electors" theory, and they couldn't get Pence to go along with the scheme. So they caused an insurrection as a last ditch effort to delay certification. In 2029 every Republican will go along with plan A. They've already purged everyone who did the right thing in 2021 from the party. So they won't need an insurrection because any Democrat that wins in Georgia will just be erased, as they've made sure to take state control over county election boards after county election boards there went against Trump's wishes in 2020. [1] https://medium.com/@Elamika https://medium.com/@Elamika
johnnyanmac 9mo ago
People are dying on broad daylight and who knows what Anne Frank atrocities we're going to discover in the years, even decades, to come in this year alone. Yes it's political. No, this isn't really red vs. blue anymore. If nothing else it's very clear we need to bring politics back to the dinner table. And not he afraid to talk about it in 'nonpartisan' spaces. You can ignore politics, but it never ignores you.

azakai 9mo ago

If this interested you, here is another detailed and precise article by a historian, on the same topic: https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-definition-of-fascism/ https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-...

ezst 9mo ago
…and another one, much less academic in style and substance, but no less informative and relevant: https://scribe.rip/@carmitage/i-researched-every-attempt-to-stop-fascism-in-history-the-success-rate-is-0-a665e2e048a2 https://scribe.rip/@carmitage/i-researched-every-attempt-to-...
- Kaibeezy 9mo ago
  Add the Umberto Eco Ur-Fascism linked below.
- Jensson 9mo ago
  > I researched every Democratic attempt to stop fascism in history. the success rate after fascists were elected was 0%. Ergo Trump isn't fascist since he already was elected and democracy removed him once before. Otherwise they have to say that there has been one successful attempt for democracy to remove a fascist. Only reason Trump won the last election was that the democrats failed so hard at coming up with good candidates, if they had someone as good as John Biden before dementia Trump would have lost, trying to hide his dementia is why Trump rules today.
  - comfysocks 9mo ago
    Well he did try to overturn that election, but he failed. So I guess that makes him a failed fascist last time around. This time he’s trying much harder. Let’s make sure he fails again.
- hn_throwaway_99 9mo ago
  To be honest I didn't find the historical parallels as convincing in this article. I'm glad the author did recognize that we are in uncharted waters, but I think another potential reason to believe that our current fascist government is a little bit more restrained than earlier ones is due to the same forces that allowed it to rise in the first place - that is, social media and instantly viral videos. What has happened since the Alex Pretti shooting was simply impossible in previous fascist governments. The administration can tell all the lies they want about it, but most of us have eyeballs, and we can see the multiple videos with frame-by-frame analysis. In the past, government propaganda would have been more effective in cases like this - it would have been a case of "who do you believe, team A or team B?" I don't have to believe either team, I just have to believe my own eyes.
  - ezst 9mo ago
    > The administration can tell all the lies they want about it, but most of us have eyeballs […] In the past, […] it would have been a case of "who do you believe, team A or team B?" Damn I wish I could share your optimism. If one thing, social media has induced more division, and generalised the idea that "if you are not with me, you are against me". We are at a point where many are demonstrably more comfortable staying in their bubble of lies than willing to seek the truth out of it. And truth is unfortunately overrated.

throw0101c 9mo ago

> If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance […] Also perhaps worth noting that David Frum, former speech writer to Dubya Bush, writes for The Atlantic (and has been against Trump from the start: see his book Trumpocracy): * https://www.theatlantic.com/author/david-frum/ https://www.theatlantic.com/author/david-frum/ So we're not just talking about 'leftists' criticizing these actions and policies.

ikidd 9mo ago
And was a pretty rabid conservative until the Trump era. He only left the Republicans in 2024, he was around for the first term. Maybe he's grown a spine.
- throw0101c 9mo ago
  > He only left the Republicans in 2024, he was around for the first term. Yes, he hoped to fight from the inside, but recognized that the GOP had been taken over my inmates. In 2016 he voted for Clinton and urged others to do so: > Surely the American system of government is more robust than the Turkish or Hungarian or Polish or Malaysian or Italian systems. But that is not automatically true. It is true because of the active vigilance of freedom-loving citizens who put country first, party second. Not in many decades has that vigilance been required as it is required now. > Your hand may hesitate to put a mark beside the name, Hillary Clinton. You’re not doing it for her. The vote you cast is for the republic and the Constitution. * https://archive.is/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/dont-gamble-on-trump/506207/ https://archive.is/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...
JeremyNT 9mo ago
The left / right split isn't really meaningful in the United States right now. The split is currently between people who believe in and want a functional and equitable government, and those who are fine with a kleptocracy as long as they are personally the beneficiaries (or at least, the people they dislike suffer worse). People like Frum were quick to notice this and get on the correct side of it. Unfortunately, there are not enough Republicans who feel the same way to make much of a difference.

lossolo 9mo ago

> How it ends. Where we likely go from there. I highly recommend Anniversary https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12583926/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12583926/

ModernMech 9mo ago

It's nice but also endlessly frustrating and very very late, because what he regards as overuse of the term is really just people who were applying the term correctly for the past 10 years as people like the author refused to call a spade a spade. If the nascent fascist were discarded, people would have stopped saying it so much. The problem for people like the author is that other more astute individuals [1] correctly diagnosed the issue over a decade ago. All it took was for her to have grown up in Poland and to be a clinical psychologist who knows how to spot malignant narcissism. The rest fell into place because human nature is so... predictable. So while it's welcome for the author to finally catch up to the rest of us, it's a little late at this point. Also If people like the author had listened to more sensible people when they had started using the F word instead of dismissing them as hyperbolic, then we wouldn't be here. Also this bit: > Although Trump is term-limited, we must not expect that he and his MAGA loyalists will voluntarily turn over the White House to a Democrat in 2029, regardless of what the voters say—and the second insurrection will be far better organized than the first. shows the author is still a step behind. The correct framing is that the first insurrection succeeded. It continued after Jan 6 for 4 years, as Trump waged an information war contending he was the true winner of the election, and also a war on the judiciary to evade accountability. In that battle he evaded all accountability, nullified the impeachment clause of the Constitution, and also gained "Presidential Immunity" from his appointees on SCOTUS. He also nullified Section 3 of the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which prohibits anyone who has previously taken an oath to support the Constitution from holding state or federal office if they have "engaged in insurrection or rebellion" against the US. Trump caused an insurrection, and yet somehow he was allowed to run and hold office again. So the first insurrection was successful, the perpetrators got away with it, and they assumed total power over the government they attacked after evading judicial accountability and waging an information war on the population. Anyway, next time there won't be a need for an insurrection, because the only reason there was one in 2021 was because plans A through G failed -- they couldn't get votes in Georgia, they couldn't overturn any state, they didn't win any court cases, they couldn't get people to go along with their "alternate electors" theory, and they couldn't get Pence to go along with the scheme. So they caused an insurrection as a last ditch effort to delay certification. In 2029 every Republican will go along with plan A. They've already purged everyone who did the right thing in 2021 from the party. So they won't need an insurrection because any Democrat that wins in Georgia will just be erased, as they've made sure to take state control over county election boards after county election boards there went against Trump's wishes in 2020. [1] https://medium.com/@Elamika https://medium.com/@Elamika

johnnyanmac 9mo ago

People are dying on broad daylight and who knows what Anne Frank atrocities we're going to discover in the years, even decades, to come in this year alone. Yes it's political. No, this isn't really red vs. blue anymore. If nothing else it's very clear we need to bring politics back to the dinner table. And not he afraid to talk about it in 'nonpartisan' spaces. You can ignore politics, but it never ignores you.