5 ms·

Yeah I'm against ICE and I don't want any immigrants deported.

gruez 9mo ago
/s? Otherwise you're proving his point, which is that there's no middle ground, only "ICE raids terrorizing people" and "sanctuary cities/states where local governments refuse to do any sort of immigration enforcement and specifically turn a blind eye to immigration status".
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  What actual, concrete benefit do you see from deporting immigrants?
  - gruez 9mo ago
    >you see from deporting immigrants? Nice job sneakily changing "immigration enforcement" to "deporting immigrants".
  - PlanksVariable 9mo ago
    The question is about deporting illegal immigrants specifically, i.e. people who are in a country in violated of its immigration laws. I think the main benefit is the same as with any law: if you have a law with no consequences for the people who break it, you don’t really have a law. If we don’t have immigration laws, we have an open border and with an open border, we can’t regulate the rate at which people enter the country. This rate can easily exceed the amount that the country reasonably accommodate, which negative impact on housing, healthcare, welfare, transportation, civic cohesion, and education systems. Immigration law is standard around the world, with deportation being the standard response to people who violate that law. The more interesting question here is how you think a modern country will function and continue serving the needs of its citizens when it stops enforcing its immigration laws.
    - ok_dad 9mo ago
      > I think the main benefit is the same as with any law: if you have a law with no consequences for the people who break it, you don’t really have a law. How do you feel about ICE raiding citizens homes without warrants? How about door to door raids? If ICE cannot even follow the 4th and 5th amendments then they should be jailed themselves.
      - PlanksVariable 9mo ago
        They currently use administrative warrants but I’m in favor of requiring judicial warrants.
        fzeroracer 9mo ago
        Boss, they already require judicial warrants. They're blatantly violating constitutional rights. Do you think we have constitutional rights or not? Do we have laws or not?
        PlanksVariable 9mo ago
        I agree, but I’m clarifying the facts: they’re claiming an administrative warrant gives them authority to enter a house, not no warrant as OP stated.
        deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
        direwolf20 9mo ago
        An administrative warrant is just an email from their boss telling them to do it. It's not a real thing
        e44858 9mo ago
        Has this ever been tested in court?
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
- jfyi 9mo ago
  It's a false dilemma either way. "You are with ICE or you are pro-illegal immigration". ...and that's best case scenario, giving the benefit of the doubt.
- sosomoxie 9mo ago
  Yes, well I don't think we should deport people and I think immigrants improve the US, so I would be in the latter category. He's "waiting to hear of alternatives that don't involve deporting illegal immigrants", and I have one: don't deport anyone.
  - gruez 9mo ago
    >Yes, well I don't think we should deport people and I think immigrants improve the US, so I would be in the latter category Which would put you in the minority (16%). https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2025/03/26/americans-views-of-deportations/re_2025-03-26_views-of-deportations_0-01a/ https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2025/03/26/am... Even without getting into a debate of whether we should do immigration enforcement at all (a sibling reply goes into it in better detail), there's the practical effect that most people do, and if Democrats don't oblige, people like Trump will get in power instead.
    - sosomoxie 9mo ago
      I think the Democrats are also culpable for supporting anti-immigrant policy and sentiment. I absolutely believe that I'm in the minority, as this country has a deep history in racial bias (in fact, it was founded on that).
PlanksVariable 9mo ago
Why? Deportation is a reasonable response when a person violates a country’s immigration laws. That is the standard around the world. Alternatively, you have an essentially open border, which obviously can lead to unmanageable waves of immigration that strain a country’s housing, healthcare, schools, welfare, and other resources, among other effects. Disruption to peoples’ lives happens when we have administrations who arbitrarily decide not to enforce the immigration law (e.g. the previous administration). It sends mixed signals to potential immigrants, and leads to the outcomes we have today when we decide to resume enforcing our laws.
- sosomoxie 9mo ago
  > obviously can lead to unmanageable waves of immigration that strain a country’s housing, healthcare, schools, welfare, and other resources, among other effects. I don't agree that this is "obvious". Immigrants bring important social and cultural capital. Who do you think is building a lot of the infrastructure in the US? The people putting a strain on the system are actually the aging baby boomer generation. I have many other reasons for supporting open immigration that are less transactional, but the suggestions that immigrants "strain" our infrastructure is incorrect.
  - PlanksVariable 9mo ago
    Immigrants do bring important social and cultural capital. But nobody here is arguing in favor of no immigration. The standard among countries all over the world is to regulate the flow of immigration via immigration law and deportation of people who violate that law. How could a massive influx of people happening faster than a system can react not strain the system? I saw this firsthand in schools and hospitals where I grew up, and there are numerous examples throughout history from around the world of the disruption it can cause.
    - sosomoxie 9mo ago
      The US is not like many countries in that it was formed by illegal immigrants, and not just immigration, literal genocide and land theft of the indigenous people. That being said, all immigration policy is out of date. The world is connected now and the policies are an anachronism. > How could a massive influx of people happening faster than a system can react I don't agree that this is reality. Our system is not under strain from immigration. It's under strain because we spend our money on the military instead of improving infrastructure. It's also under strain due to wealth inequality and corporate friendly policy. None of which has anything to do with immigration.
xyzzy9563 9mo ago
[flagged]
- sosomoxie 9mo ago
  No, I do not think immigration laws should exist. There is zero chance of 400 million people sleeping in my backyard.
  - xyzzy9563 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - sosomoxie 9mo ago
      I think this racist comment is a great example of how the immigrants have a superior culture to many people who live in this country.
      - xyzzy9563 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        sosomoxie 9mo ago
        You're badly breaking site guidelines and spewing pseudo-science racial hatred.
        xyzzy9563 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        selimthegrim 9mo ago
        You should go read Masters of Doom where their boss wanted to rent them a house with dirt floors - you wanna call those guys losers too

gruez 9mo ago

/s? Otherwise you're proving his point, which is that there's no middle ground, only "ICE raids terrorizing people" and "sanctuary cities/states where local governments refuse to do any sort of immigration enforcement and specifically turn a blind eye to immigration status".

direwolf20 9mo ago
What actual, concrete benefit do you see from deporting immigrants?
- gruez 9mo ago
  >you see from deporting immigrants? Nice job sneakily changing "immigration enforcement" to "deporting immigrants".
- PlanksVariable 9mo ago
  The question is about deporting illegal immigrants specifically, i.e. people who are in a country in violated of its immigration laws. I think the main benefit is the same as with any law: if you have a law with no consequences for the people who break it, you don’t really have a law. If we don’t have immigration laws, we have an open border and with an open border, we can’t regulate the rate at which people enter the country. This rate can easily exceed the amount that the country reasonably accommodate, which negative impact on housing, healthcare, welfare, transportation, civic cohesion, and education systems. Immigration law is standard around the world, with deportation being the standard response to people who violate that law. The more interesting question here is how you think a modern country will function and continue serving the needs of its citizens when it stops enforcing its immigration laws.
  - ok_dad 9mo ago
    > I think the main benefit is the same as with any law: if you have a law with no consequences for the people who break it, you don’t really have a law. How do you feel about ICE raiding citizens homes without warrants? How about door to door raids? If ICE cannot even follow the 4th and 5th amendments then they should be jailed themselves.
    - PlanksVariable 9mo ago
      They currently use administrative warrants but I’m in favor of requiring judicial warrants.
      - fzeroracer 9mo ago
        Boss, they already require judicial warrants. They're blatantly violating constitutional rights. Do you think we have constitutional rights or not? Do we have laws or not?
        PlanksVariable 9mo ago
        I agree, but I’m clarifying the facts: they’re claiming an administrative warrant gives them authority to enter a house, not no warrant as OP stated.
        deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
        direwolf20 9mo ago
        An administrative warrant is just an email from their boss telling them to do it. It's not a real thing
        e44858 9mo ago
        Has this ever been tested in court?
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
jfyi 9mo ago
It's a false dilemma either way. "You are with ICE or you are pro-illegal immigration". ...and that's best case scenario, giving the benefit of the doubt.
sosomoxie 9mo ago
Yes, well I don't think we should deport people and I think immigrants improve the US, so I would be in the latter category. He's "waiting to hear of alternatives that don't involve deporting illegal immigrants", and I have one: don't deport anyone.
- gruez 9mo ago
  >Yes, well I don't think we should deport people and I think immigrants improve the US, so I would be in the latter category Which would put you in the minority (16%). https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2025/03/26/americans-views-of-deportations/re_2025-03-26_views-of-deportations_0-01a/ https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2025/03/26/am... Even without getting into a debate of whether we should do immigration enforcement at all (a sibling reply goes into it in better detail), there's the practical effect that most people do, and if Democrats don't oblige, people like Trump will get in power instead.
  - sosomoxie 9mo ago
    I think the Democrats are also culpable for supporting anti-immigrant policy and sentiment. I absolutely believe that I'm in the minority, as this country has a deep history in racial bias (in fact, it was founded on that).

PlanksVariable 9mo ago

Why? Deportation is a reasonable response when a person violates a country’s immigration laws. That is the standard around the world. Alternatively, you have an essentially open border, which obviously can lead to unmanageable waves of immigration that strain a country’s housing, healthcare, schools, welfare, and other resources, among other effects. Disruption to peoples’ lives happens when we have administrations who arbitrarily decide not to enforce the immigration law (e.g. the previous administration). It sends mixed signals to potential immigrants, and leads to the outcomes we have today when we decide to resume enforcing our laws.

sosomoxie 9mo ago
> obviously can lead to unmanageable waves of immigration that strain a country’s housing, healthcare, schools, welfare, and other resources, among other effects. I don't agree that this is "obvious". Immigrants bring important social and cultural capital. Who do you think is building a lot of the infrastructure in the US? The people putting a strain on the system are actually the aging baby boomer generation. I have many other reasons for supporting open immigration that are less transactional, but the suggestions that immigrants "strain" our infrastructure is incorrect.
- PlanksVariable 9mo ago
  Immigrants do bring important social and cultural capital. But nobody here is arguing in favor of no immigration. The standard among countries all over the world is to regulate the flow of immigration via immigration law and deportation of people who violate that law. How could a massive influx of people happening faster than a system can react not strain the system? I saw this firsthand in schools and hospitals where I grew up, and there are numerous examples throughout history from around the world of the disruption it can cause.
  - sosomoxie 9mo ago
    The US is not like many countries in that it was formed by illegal immigrants, and not just immigration, literal genocide and land theft of the indigenous people. That being said, all immigration policy is out of date. The world is connected now and the policies are an anachronism. > How could a massive influx of people happening faster than a system can react I don't agree that this is reality. Our system is not under strain from immigration. It's under strain because we spend our money on the military instead of improving infrastructure. It's also under strain due to wealth inequality and corporate friendly policy. None of which has anything to do with immigration.

xyzzy9563 9mo ago

[flagged]

sosomoxie 9mo ago
No, I do not think immigration laws should exist. There is zero chance of 400 million people sleeping in my backyard.
- xyzzy9563 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - sosomoxie 9mo ago
    I think this racist comment is a great example of how the immigrants have a superior culture to many people who live in this country.
    - xyzzy9563 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - sosomoxie 9mo ago
        You're badly breaking site guidelines and spewing pseudo-science racial hatred.
        xyzzy9563 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        selimthegrim 9mo ago
        You should go read Masters of Doom where their boss wanted to rent them a house with dirt floors - you wanna call those guys losers too