4 ms·

theres no drought in california. if we wanted to tomorrow we could stop it. its like complaining you are sweaty after working out

bryanlarsen 9mo ago
Pedantically, you're correct. There's been drought in California for the previous 24 years, but this year there isn't one.
- rationalist 9mo ago
  > allocation of water I thought the GP was referring to the water allocated to farming.
ajross 9mo ago
> theres no drought in california. CA is not in a drought right now. CA has been in conditions of persistent drought, with no more than a year or two of respite, for two decades. The last sustained period of sustained at-or-above-desired-level precipitation ended in 2007. As always, Wikipedia explains this well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California Your logic amounts to "I'm not poor because I just got paid! Let's go to the bar tonight!"
- calvinmorrison 9mo ago
  My logic is "OH NO I KEEP HITTING MYSELF IN THE HEAD WITH A RUSTY POKER WHY DO I KEEP BLEEDING!" If we dont want a drought, stop messing with the water supply. "Much of the water used in California comes from the Colorado River. By usage, ~79% of the river goes to crop irrigation (70% of which is cattle feed), ~13% to residential water usage, ~4% for commercial use, and ~4% for thermal power plants"
  - seanmcdirmid 9mo ago
    > If we dont want a drought, stop messing with the water supply. How is that different from "if you don't want drought, don't use water for most things"? Yes, we could curtail agriculture, power generation, etc..., but those all have their own problems.
    - ajross 9mo ago
      Some pedantry first: you're describing "water shortage", which is a resource management issue, and not "drought", which is purely a precipitation thing. But yes: you need to manage resources if we want to live in the environment. The way you don't do that is by announcing "there is no drought in california" and then proceeding to use the water falling today without recognizing that we're almost certainly still in a period of sustained drought and that such consumption isn't any more sustainable in the current La Niña cycle than it was last year or next.
      - seanmcdirmid 9mo ago
        Yes, all shortages can be solved by using less of the resource that we have a shortage of. But that’s like telling a poor person to spend less money if you can’t tell them to make more money. Drought is simply a way of saying less water came from the sky than was expected. Obviously if less water comes for an extended period of time, you just call it the new normal and stop calling it a drought.
        ajross 9mo ago
        > But that’s like telling a poor person to spend less money if you can’t tell them to make more money. Not sure where you're going with this metaphor. We absolutely should be helping out people who are financially struggling with advice about how to manage their funds. Don't go clubbing if you're behind on your rent. Cook your own food instead of grabbing another burger. Talk to a bank about consolidating your credit cards. And of course we do. And it works, and is helpful. But somehow you don't see that, or how it might apply to thing like "change crop and livestock choices to reflect resource availability" or "change taxation strategy to the externalities are borne fairly and not by consumers"?
tdeck 9mo ago
The "drought vs no drought" conversation hides the fact that a significant percentage of the water in the central valley aquifer has been pumped out for agriculture and other uses. Even if we stopped that tomorrow it would not recharge quickly, and the surface water is not sufficient for current demand.

bryanlarsen 9mo ago

Pedantically, you're correct. There's been drought in California for the previous 24 years, but this year there isn't one.

rationalist 9mo ago
> allocation of water I thought the GP was referring to the water allocated to farming.

ajross 9mo ago

> theres no drought in california. CA is not in a drought right now. CA has been in conditions of persistent drought, with no more than a year or two of respite, for two decades. The last sustained period of sustained at-or-above-desired-level precipitation ended in 2007. As always, Wikipedia explains this well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California Your logic amounts to "I'm not poor because I just got paid! Let's go to the bar tonight!"

calvinmorrison 9mo ago
My logic is "OH NO I KEEP HITTING MYSELF IN THE HEAD WITH A RUSTY POKER WHY DO I KEEP BLEEDING!" If we dont want a drought, stop messing with the water supply. "Much of the water used in California comes from the Colorado River. By usage, ~79% of the river goes to crop irrigation (70% of which is cattle feed), ~13% to residential water usage, ~4% for commercial use, and ~4% for thermal power plants"
- seanmcdirmid 9mo ago
  > If we dont want a drought, stop messing with the water supply. How is that different from "if you don't want drought, don't use water for most things"? Yes, we could curtail agriculture, power generation, etc..., but those all have their own problems.
  - ajross 9mo ago
    Some pedantry first: you're describing "water shortage", which is a resource management issue, and not "drought", which is purely a precipitation thing. But yes: you need to manage resources if we want to live in the environment. The way you don't do that is by announcing "there is no drought in california" and then proceeding to use the water falling today without recognizing that we're almost certainly still in a period of sustained drought and that such consumption isn't any more sustainable in the current La Niña cycle than it was last year or next.
    - seanmcdirmid 9mo ago
      Yes, all shortages can be solved by using less of the resource that we have a shortage of. But that’s like telling a poor person to spend less money if you can’t tell them to make more money. Drought is simply a way of saying less water came from the sky than was expected. Obviously if less water comes for an extended period of time, you just call it the new normal and stop calling it a drought.
      - ajross 9mo ago
        > But that’s like telling a poor person to spend less money if you can’t tell them to make more money. Not sure where you're going with this metaphor. We absolutely should be helping out people who are financially struggling with advice about how to manage their funds. Don't go clubbing if you're behind on your rent. Cook your own food instead of grabbing another burger. Talk to a bank about consolidating your credit cards. And of course we do. And it works, and is helpful. But somehow you don't see that, or how it might apply to thing like "change crop and livestock choices to reflect resource availability" or "change taxation strategy to the externalities are borne fairly and not by consumers"?

tdeck 9mo ago

The "drought vs no drought" conversation hides the fact that a significant percentage of the water in the central valley aquifer has been pumped out for agriculture and other uses. Even if we stopped that tomorrow it would not recharge quickly, and the surface water is not sufficient for current demand.