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Wine-Staging 11.1 Adds Patches for Enabling Recent Photoshop Versions on Linux

131 points by LorenDB 9mo ago

andrewstuart2 9mo ago
I'd be pretty thrilled if I could run Lightroom on Linux. Photoshop is great too but Lightroom is my main app for my biggest hobby and I've had to buy myself a whole MacBookPro just to do it without dual booting Windows, which really raises the mental barrier for me to jump in and edit photos, which makes me want to take them a lot less. I've tried Darktable and it's pretty impressive software and could probably handle most of my needs. But apparently I'm now that old guy who's been using software X for 20 years and refuses to change his ways because it's not worth it. At least when it comes to Lightroom.
- hxorr 9mo ago
  You could run in a VM - check out WinBoat which allows individual apos in a containerised Windows install to integrate seamlessly with your linux desktop environment
  - tambourine_man 9mo ago
    But no hardware acceleration, AFAIK, so that’s a no-go for any graphically intense app.
doener 9mo ago
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46749508 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46749508
diath 9mo ago
This is just for the installer so it saves you the "install on Windows and move files to Linux" step however the Adobe suite still runs poorly in WINE.
- sjsbn 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - wolttam 9mo ago
    Lol, tell that to Valve.
    - frankie_t 9mo ago
      I'm not sure what 'most apps' constituted in their case, but I've been playing all my games on Linux for the last 3 years and can't be happier. I wonder, what prevents better support for 'regular' apps? Are they using some windows API that is hard to implement in Linux?
      - bdhcuidbebe 9mo ago
        More resources were put into gaming api’s by Valve, that is all.
      - spookie 9mo ago
        Games are usually created from the beginning with cross-platform in mind. So, not as coupled.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
andy_xor_andrew 9mo ago
Curious if someone could enlighten me- How much of these sorts of patches are specifically checking if a certain application is running, and then changing behavior to match what that application expects? And how much of it is simply better emulating the Windows API in general? I think there are benefits to both approaches, not criticizing either one. I'm just curious if the implementation of a patch like this is "We fixed an inconsistency between Wine and Windows" vs "We're checking if Photoshop is running and using a different locking primitive" or whatever.
- spijdar 9mo ago
  I can't speak to this case specifically, but it's worth pointing out that Windows itself applies many patches for specific applications, so it follows that Wine could be obliged to mimic that behavior in cases where the application relies on it.
  - superb_dev 9mo ago
    Not just Windows, it’s pretty common all over the place. I know for a fact web browsers and GPU driver will do the same
  - Telaneo 9mo ago
    A tale as old as time. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/windows-95-went-the-extra-mile-to-ensure-compatibility-of-simcity-other-games/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/windows-95-went-the-... https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20031015-00/?p=42163 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20031015-00/?p=42... https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20160418-00/?p=93307 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20160418-00/?p=93...
- YokoZar 9mo ago
  In general free open-source Wine has been developed with the philosophy of of not allowing application-specific code. Crossover (and presumably Photon), however, allows such patches for supported applications. Patches can be motivated by specific apps, of course, but generally the requirement is to complete the patch implementing/fixing some API in a generic way, proven by additions to the test suite showing the same behavior on Windows.
LexiMax 9mo ago
What is preventing Microsoft from pulling an Oracle and suing Valve, CodeWeavers, or individual Wine maintainers for re-implementing Win32? This question has been nagging at me for a while. Regardless of how much validity there is to the lawsuit, I imagine that going to trial would be supremely risky, because if you happen across anybody working on Wine that saw something they weren't supposed to, you could sink the whole project. I cannot imagine Microsoft sitting by and quietly letting their Windows monopoly vanish between their fingers. Selling Windows may not be their primary focus these days, but why give up an advantage like that?
- some-guy 9mo ago
  If anything Microsoft will give up their advantage by making Windows 11 a UX dumpster fire. If Windows 11 had an official way to turn off all of the garbage and opt out of their monopolistic PM-brained “features” a lot of us who switched to Linux probably wouldn’t have happened.
  - dlahoda 9mo ago
    i was using wsl2. and got weird slowness and high cpu. appeared it was their built in antivirus(av). i disabled av, but it autoenabled later and did same. it is possible to secure windows other way without active protection btw. i used git on wsl2. it got weird issues with git connectivity over wifi. github ticket not solved. one of most popular and essential dev tools is not stably working in wsl2. many rust crates supported only mac, bsd and linux. nobody cared windows. so even without ux of recent version, i had to leave. for my wife is still run windows. but. she had fully official surface laptop with official office. not 3rd party or pirated things. and... office became very very slow just typing... it was 3 years ago. i have run script disabling all things. it good for 3rd year now. but how they managed to make their laptop new one, with all their things so bad?
- shmerl 9mo ago
  It will kill GitHub I suspect. Who will trust them if they can pull the plug on open source projects using the dumb "API is copyrightable" claim? I'd say last time they tried to pull that by backing Oracle in that legal case, they already damaged their reputation enough.
ZoomZoomZoom 9mo ago
Photoshop (and, to a lesser extent, the rest of the CC suite) is a bloated abomination. >5 web view processes, some "IPC broker", CCXProcess that launches a long-lived node instance, some system services. Most of it runs after you close the main application. Nothing of it all is really to any benefit of the user, some of the processes can (and commonly are) substituted with dummy binaries. About ten to fifteen years ago I had hopes the development direction was aiming for true platform independence and we might get a Linux version. Since then it deteriorated into a telemetry-ridden dumpster fire of a graphics-processing OS with the same symptoms as their hosts (duplicated dialogues with different generation UIs for the same action, hello Windows!). Makes sense achieving it work under Wine is a worthy goal, as long as it depends on implementing obscure parts of the API, and not just making hacks for the specific programs to work. It's appalling to think Adobe CC is forcing so many people keep Windows installed, considering how hostile the software itself is. Hope it all implodes and the industry moves to something more sensible (no way).

131 points by LorenDB 9mo ago

I'd be pretty thrilled if I could run Lightroom on Linux. Photoshop is great too but Lightroom is my main app for my biggest hobby and I've had to buy myself a whole MacBookPro just to do it without dual booting Windows, which really raises the mental barrier for me to jump in and edit photos, which makes me want to take them a lot less. I've tried Darktable and it's pretty impressive software and could probably handle most of my needs. But apparently I'm now that old guy who's been using software X for 20 years and refuses to change his ways because it's not worth it. At least when it comes to Lightroom.

hxorr 9mo ago
You could run in a VM - check out WinBoat which allows individual apos in a containerised Windows install to integrate seamlessly with your linux desktop environment
- tambourine_man 9mo ago
  But no hardware acceleration, AFAIK, so that’s a no-go for any graphically intense app.

doener 9mo ago

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46749508 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46749508

diath 9mo ago

This is just for the installer so it saves you the "install on Windows and move files to Linux" step however the Adobe suite still runs poorly in WINE.

sjsbn 9mo ago
[flagged]
- wolttam 9mo ago
  Lol, tell that to Valve.
  - frankie_t 9mo ago
    I'm not sure what 'most apps' constituted in their case, but I've been playing all my games on Linux for the last 3 years and can't be happier. I wonder, what prevents better support for 'regular' apps? Are they using some windows API that is hard to implement in Linux?
    - bdhcuidbebe 9mo ago
      More resources were put into gaming api’s by Valve, that is all.
    - spookie 9mo ago
      Games are usually created from the beginning with cross-platform in mind. So, not as coupled.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]

andy_xor_andrew 9mo ago

Curious if someone could enlighten me- How much of these sorts of patches are specifically checking if a certain application is running, and then changing behavior to match what that application expects? And how much of it is simply better emulating the Windows API in general? I think there are benefits to both approaches, not criticizing either one. I'm just curious if the implementation of a patch like this is "We fixed an inconsistency between Wine and Windows" vs "We're checking if Photoshop is running and using a different locking primitive" or whatever.

spijdar 9mo ago
I can't speak to this case specifically, but it's worth pointing out that Windows itself applies many patches for specific applications, so it follows that Wine could be obliged to mimic that behavior in cases where the application relies on it.
- superb_dev 9mo ago
  Not just Windows, it’s pretty common all over the place. I know for a fact web browsers and GPU driver will do the same
- Telaneo 9mo ago
  A tale as old as time. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/windows-95-went-the-extra-mile-to-ensure-compatibility-of-simcity-other-games/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/windows-95-went-the-... https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20031015-00/?p=42163 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20031015-00/?p=42... https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20160418-00/?p=93307 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20160418-00/?p=93...
YokoZar 9mo ago
In general free open-source Wine has been developed with the philosophy of of not allowing application-specific code. Crossover (and presumably Photon), however, allows such patches for supported applications. Patches can be motivated by specific apps, of course, but generally the requirement is to complete the patch implementing/fixing some API in a generic way, proven by additions to the test suite showing the same behavior on Windows.

LexiMax 9mo ago

What is preventing Microsoft from pulling an Oracle and suing Valve, CodeWeavers, or individual Wine maintainers for re-implementing Win32? This question has been nagging at me for a while. Regardless of how much validity there is to the lawsuit, I imagine that going to trial would be supremely risky, because if you happen across anybody working on Wine that saw something they weren't supposed to, you could sink the whole project. I cannot imagine Microsoft sitting by and quietly letting their Windows monopoly vanish between their fingers. Selling Windows may not be their primary focus these days, but why give up an advantage like that?

some-guy 9mo ago
If anything Microsoft will give up their advantage by making Windows 11 a UX dumpster fire. If Windows 11 had an official way to turn off all of the garbage and opt out of their monopolistic PM-brained “features” a lot of us who switched to Linux probably wouldn’t have happened.
- dlahoda 9mo ago
  i was using wsl2. and got weird slowness and high cpu. appeared it was their built in antivirus(av). i disabled av, but it autoenabled later and did same. it is possible to secure windows other way without active protection btw. i used git on wsl2. it got weird issues with git connectivity over wifi. github ticket not solved. one of most popular and essential dev tools is not stably working in wsl2. many rust crates supported only mac, bsd and linux. nobody cared windows. so even without ux of recent version, i had to leave. for my wife is still run windows. but. she had fully official surface laptop with official office. not 3rd party or pirated things. and... office became very very slow just typing... it was 3 years ago. i have run script disabling all things. it good for 3rd year now. but how they managed to make their laptop new one, with all their things so bad?
shmerl 9mo ago
It will kill GitHub I suspect. Who will trust them if they can pull the plug on open source projects using the dumb "API is copyrightable" claim? I'd say last time they tried to pull that by backing Oracle in that legal case, they already damaged their reputation enough.

ZoomZoomZoom 9mo ago

Photoshop (and, to a lesser extent, the rest of the CC suite) is a bloated abomination. >5 web view processes, some "IPC broker", CCXProcess that launches a long-lived node instance, some system services. Most of it runs after you close the main application. Nothing of it all is really to any benefit of the user, some of the processes can (and commonly are) substituted with dummy binaries. About ten to fifteen years ago I had hopes the development direction was aiming for true platform independence and we might get a Linux version. Since then it deteriorated into a telemetry-ridden dumpster fire of a graphics-processing OS with the same symptoms as their hosts (duplicated dialogues with different generation UIs for the same action, hello Windows!). Makes sense achieving it work under Wine is a worthy goal, as long as it depends on implementing obscure parts of the API, and not just making hacks for the specific programs to work. It's appalling to think Adobe CC is forcing so many people keep Windows installed, considering how hostile the software itself is. Hope it all implodes and the industry moves to something more sensible (no way).