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Even modern cars pollute a lot (especially in winter) because you need a certain temperature for the cats to start working. On short city trips it happens frequ
by adrianN 9mo ago
Even modern cars pollute a lot (especially in winter) because you need a certain temperature for the cats to start working. On short city trips it happens frequently that you never reach proper operating temperatures.
- chrisbrandow 9mo agoI used to work for the Air Resources Board of California, and while there is a warm-up period, modern ice cars are so profoundly cleaner than cars even from the early 2000s. It’s pretty stunning. Regardless, there’s nothing cleaner than no combustion, and I can’t wait until EV‘s have replaced them all
- trimethylpurine 9mo ago[flagged]
- decimalenough 9mo agoEvery single survey that I'm aware has concluded that by any measure EVs are more environmentally friendly than ICEs. The only caveat is that the "startup" footprint of an EV is higher (because batteries), but the ongoing cost is far lower, even with polluting electricity sources like coal, because it's still way more efficient to burn coal in a proper power plant than it is to ship around gasoline and burn it badly in ICEs. The breakeven point (depending on your assumptions and driving habits) is a couple of years in, and after that EVs wipe the floor with ICEs. Here's a bunch of those surveys: https://evcentral.com.au/which-is-best-for-the-environment-ev-or-ice-heres-the-truth-about-co2-emissions-across-the-lifecycle-of-new-cars/#:~:text=In%202018%20the%20EEA%20published,cycle%20GHG%20emissions%20than%20ICEVs. https://evcentral.com.au/which-is-best-for-the-environment-e... Keen to hear your expert opinion on what (eg) the International Energy Agency got wrong.
- trimethylpurine 9mo ago[flagged]
- rcxdude 9mo agoJust say the substantive part. The warmup has already reduced the impact, not helped.
- trimethylpurine 9mo agoNo warmup here. I've stated that much of the research favoring "clean" energy makes extremely generous assumptions about the validity of the data and allows for overly confident assertions mainly used for marketing. We know a lot less about the environment than you think, and even with what we do know, we can say for sure that when you include supply, manufacture, transduction, etc. you really can't call any method for power generation "clean" with current tech. It's all empty promises of new potential tech to be seen if we milk the tax payer. Just people with degrees in the field making money on selling pipe dreams to the public, and helping officials pump taxes into their investments. That's "clean" energy in a paragraph. It doesn't exist.
- mittensc 9mo agoI'm an expert in the field and I can say EVs are much less pollutant then ICE cars. Do give your best shot to debunk that.
- trimethylpurine 9mo agoEven where they are charged using coal? Please provide the research on that. Note that I'll be checking who funded and who performed the peer review, so please choose carefully before posting.
- mittensc 9mo agoHow would you put coal in EV?! They're electric, you plug them in! You provide the research to prove ICE is cleaner. Go in detail, I'll check everything: - cost of extraction - cost of byproducts - cost of refining - waste during refining - cost of transporting oil to the pump (what do oil transport ships burn?) - cost of burning that oil - analysis on car age affecting emissions - analysis of cheating like volkswagen - full analysis of ICE car manufacturing - Cost of wars to give us oil - cost of weaponry needed to make oil producers behave and sell it at a decent price - cost of aircraft carriers positioned around the world to enforce that. - health cost of breathing in fumes. - total cost of lead poisoning done by ICE cars until it was forbidden. - health costs of noxes from diesel cars. - costs of cars with dpf off or cat converter removed or just bad engines. - Environmental impact of shale oil and water aquifers destruction and earthquakes. - (reserve the right to add more after you provide the above)
- lukan 9mo agoYes, any cyclist daring to drive in winter can easily confirm this. It is so disgusting (and unhealthy) having to stand behind a ICE car on a traffic light and being behind a electric car is such a relief, that thoughts of wishing to ban all ICE cars as soon as possible (at least in cities) come automatically.
- xnx 9mo agoBuses are my nemesis. Some of the dirtiest exhaust on the roads.
- memen 9mo agoModern ICE cars have auto start/stop systems, so on a traffic light it has as much exhaust as an EV.
- lukan 9mo agoAlso when the temperature is really low? Does not seem like it. Also at some point they will start their engines again. Guess who will inhale that?
- scott_w 9mo agoIronically though, cyclists inhale less pollution than drivers (who inhale the most)! Sources: https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/10/08/report-drivers-arent-safe-from-air-pollution https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/10/08/report-drivers-arent-... which references the BBC
- amrocha 9mo agoBut not every car on the road is modern, and it smells like crap as a result
- adev_ 9mo ago> auto start/stop systems Most start stop systems will disable themselves when the heater of the car is turned ON and the car engine not hot enough yet. As a cyclist (or motorbike owner), it is pretty usual in city to have >50% cars with engines ON at traffic light in cities when temperature are low.
- ErroneousBosh 9mo agoYou could run them on propane, which doesn't need the catastrophic converters - they make no difference at all if there's no CO or HC in the exhaust stream. You've got the added bonus that you don't need to strip-mine huge chunks of Africa for precious metals, too.
- dietr1ch 9mo agoI try to keep my cat indoors, but he won't work anyway. Maybe I should get one of those newer electric cats.