5 ms·

Right now, amazon is packed full of L6 and L7 software managers, making 450-900k a year, that: 1. dont understand ai 2. have had the same skill set for 10 yea

Right now, amazon is packed full of L6 and L7 software managers, making 450-900k a year, that: 1. dont understand ai 2. have had the same skill set for 10 years 3. are working on autopilot, not trying to get promoted, just collecting paychecks 4. taking zero risk, follow protocol, play politics for the company to move forwards, they need a massive purge. 15k is childs play. too many employees that make too much money to just maintain status quo

jahnu 9mo ago
Let me ask this question. Why can Netflix make a decent tv app and Amazon cannot?
- mikert89 9mo ago
  amazon has mediocre quality talent that they grind to the bone. which worked when the company just needed raw execution. amazon has an operations culture, which was important for: 1. scaling retail 2. keeping the servers running at AWS all the low hanging fruit has been picked, they need a fundamentally different employee base
  - spwa4 9mo ago
    > all the low hanging fruit has been picked, they need a fundamentally different employee base As anyone in software development can tell you, this does not compute. You cannot do things this way, and any experienced software engineer can tell you it doesn't work. Besides, it's not how Amazon worked at all. Amazon is famous for having systematically verified ("mathematically proved") how it's core systems operated. Whereas, for example Google only did that in redesigns when the systems had already collapsed once or twice due to scale, not from early on. And even that is superior to how Microsoft or Oracle did it: they bought Google employees and had them design an iteration of what Google is running (yes, is running, not was running. Google redesigned it's core systems ... and then mostly didn't migrate. Borg was never replaced with Omega and the main large system that they migrated to is Spanner. Kubernetes isn't Borg. Kubernetes grew out of Borg's successor. Except Google never migrated away from Borg) https://cacm.acm.org/practice/systems-correctness-practices-at-amazon-web-services/ https://cacm.acm.org/practice/systems-correctness-practices-... I'm sure Amazon had entire departments, much larger than core engineering, just like every other company, where it looked like everything was operationally focused. That doesn't mean core engineering doesn't exist, or does nothing.
    - vineyardmike 9mo ago
      Publishing a paper (in 2025) about formal verification is miles different than implementing it company wide. Anyone who has talked to an Amazonian SWE knows they’re not building their systems like this. The Amazon way is to quickly grind something out, and build on as many layers of AWS abstractions as possible. They’re famous for the hustle and grind not the stellar engineering acumen of formal verification.
      - spwa4 9mo ago
        Goes back quite a bit further: https://www.amazon.science/tag/formal-verification https://www.amazon.science/tag/formal-verification
      - geodel 9mo ago
        Agree. I'd say they may have build 1% systems like this. But impression is whole cloud is built with formal verification
- alephnerd 9mo ago
  Amazon Prime Video isn't targeting the US market anymore - they made a hard pivot to India [0][1][2], and as such are primarily investing in MX Player. [0] - https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/apos-amazon-streaming-india-prime-video-and-mx-player-1236300136/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/apo... [1] - https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/prime-video-india-growth-path-lukkha-debut-1236475214/ https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/prime-video-india-growth-pa... [2] - https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/prime-video-india-content-chief-franchise-expansion-original-slate-1236323368/ https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/prime-video-india-content-c...
  - pityJuke 9mo ago
    Wait, when the fuck did the Android app I used to play on-device videos with become a streaming app, that then got acquired by Amazon?! (I know the literal answer is on Wikipedia, but I’m flabbergasted.)
    - alephnerd 9mo ago
      Back in 2018-19 because their founder Karan Bedi was smart and recognized he could leverage his past corporate experience in Big Media in India in order to make MX Player a streaming platform targeting India2 and India3, and thus build a scalable business.
      - selimthegrim 9mo ago
        2nd and 3rd tier cities?
        alephnerd 9mo ago
        Yep!
- SoftTalker 9mo ago
  TV is Netflix's core competency. It's a sideline at best for Amazon.
- majormajor 9mo ago
  Lots of companies can make decent apps. And IMO the Prime Video TV/Mobile and Amazon mobile apps are "decent" from a "they do what they're trying to do" standpoint and don't fail all the time. But they don't really think about things from a "consumer who wants to watch something tonight" vs "shopper who we want to get money from" perspective. So the Prime Video app has been painful to navigate and use. Things like concepts of how people want to interact with TV shows - one top level entry with seasons in it, vs top-level entries per season, which took them forever to change - reflect quick and dirty shoveling of concepts over from how they'd sell box sets or such vs thinking about it from a user-first POV. Or how search will return a match for just about anything because they will happily sell it to you vs having as a default "show any free results first because I'm not looking to spend more right now." That's a product/vision failure (or just mismatch with what you and I want) not an engineering/engineering culture thing.
- artyom 9mo ago
  This is really easy to answer, with some perspective from the inside, but mostly from public information: - Amazon has 3 main business lines ("orgs"): Ecommerce, AWS and devices. - Ecommerce and AWS are (now) cash cows. Devices bleeds money. TV falls into the devices organization. - Devices was a Bezos bet. Current Amazon couldn't care less honestly. - The devices organization is (today, after layoffs and people leaving in droves) essentially full of incompetent people, where all the leftovers of the other two orgs end up. - It's people that was hired to build structure with the sole purpose of some higher-up promotion. They never served any other purpose, neither they have any particularly sophisticated skill. - That's the people that makes the TV app.
Lammy 9mo ago
Corporations exist to support the lives of humans, not the other way around.
- mikert89 9mo ago
  they should give some younger people a shot to move into these management positions.
  - hdgvhicv 9mo ago
    Maybe those young people should form their own company
    - rvz 9mo ago
      This is the correct answer in 2026.
- charcircuit 9mo ago
  They exist to provide value to other entities. There is no requirement for supporting humans or even having employees.
  - SoftTalker 9mo ago
    They exist to do things that individuals could not do.
- GolfPopper 9mo ago
  From the corporations' point of view, humans are computing substrate. Relevant speech by SF author Charlie Stross, from the 34th Chaos Communication Congress in Leipzig, December 2017: https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2018/01/dude-you-broke-the-future.html https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2018/01/dude-yo...
  - nebula8804 9mo ago
    Wow 34c3, what a blast from the past! I still don't fully understand what "tuwat" meant ha ha. The best I could come up with was "Do something. Don't ask for permission".
cmiles74 9mo ago
Isn’t that the job? I’m not even sure what “understand AI” even means, from where I sit, it maybe means “add AI to everything” and that doesn’t seem that complicated. I’m not here to defend the people in Amazon corporate, I’m just not convinced it’s okay for a big rich corporation to hire all these people and then fire them on a whim. It’s not like Amazon can’t afford it.
- RHSeeger 9mo ago
  And, to be realistic, "add AI to everything" is a sure sign that the person does _not_ understand AI.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
    They might not understand ai, but they do understand how to keep their job and maybe get a promotion, while causing massive problems for everyone else to deal with.
  - cmiles74 9mo ago
    Tell that to the people cashing big checks at Microsoft and Google. ;-)
- mikert89 9mo ago
  no you dont understand, the whole career ladder at amazon is clogged with people at the company 10+ years, that have been in their role 5+ years. its a big game of dont get fired, and collect pay checks as long as possible
  - stanmancan 9mo ago
    Yes that’s how jobs work; you go to work, do your job, try not to get fired, and get paid for the work you do. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?
  - awesome_dude 9mo ago
    > its a big game of dont get fired, and collect pay checks as long as possible That pretty much sums it up for 90% of the world's employment...
rvz 9mo ago
Exactly. This is why it makes absolutely zero sense to join Amazon right now as they are the worst ones to join [0] (Unless you specialize in robotics or actual AI and not controlling 'Agents') They are aiming to layoff 30k employees this year. They are one bad earnings away from a surprise mass layoff unfortunately. The other big tech companies are at lesser risk. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46741246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46741246
Der_Einzige 9mo ago
Fully agreed and those downvoting you are Amazon employees mad that they don’t get to bully and harass their subordinates anymore.
evantbyrne 9mo ago
Culture flows from the top down
artyom 9mo ago
1. they don't understand their own job, why they're even there, let alone AI. 2. yes, if you're talking about basic reading skills at best. 3. correct. except "autopilot" doesn't even mean solving the basic problems they're supposed to solve as part of the role. 4. which is exactly what Amazon asked them to do. > for the company to move forwards, they need a massive purge. Absolutely. Starting at the C-suite, VP, and director levels (L8 and above). Source: I was there.

jahnu 9mo ago

Let me ask this question. Why can Netflix make a decent tv app and Amazon cannot?

mikert89 9mo ago
amazon has mediocre quality talent that they grind to the bone. which worked when the company just needed raw execution. amazon has an operations culture, which was important for: 1. scaling retail 2. keeping the servers running at AWS all the low hanging fruit has been picked, they need a fundamentally different employee base
- spwa4 9mo ago
  > all the low hanging fruit has been picked, they need a fundamentally different employee base As anyone in software development can tell you, this does not compute. You cannot do things this way, and any experienced software engineer can tell you it doesn't work. Besides, it's not how Amazon worked at all. Amazon is famous for having systematically verified ("mathematically proved") how it's core systems operated. Whereas, for example Google only did that in redesigns when the systems had already collapsed once or twice due to scale, not from early on. And even that is superior to how Microsoft or Oracle did it: they bought Google employees and had them design an iteration of what Google is running (yes, is running, not was running. Google redesigned it's core systems ... and then mostly didn't migrate. Borg was never replaced with Omega and the main large system that they migrated to is Spanner. Kubernetes isn't Borg. Kubernetes grew out of Borg's successor. Except Google never migrated away from Borg) https://cacm.acm.org/practice/systems-correctness-practices-at-amazon-web-services/ https://cacm.acm.org/practice/systems-correctness-practices-... I'm sure Amazon had entire departments, much larger than core engineering, just like every other company, where it looked like everything was operationally focused. That doesn't mean core engineering doesn't exist, or does nothing.
  - vineyardmike 9mo ago
    Publishing a paper (in 2025) about formal verification is miles different than implementing it company wide. Anyone who has talked to an Amazonian SWE knows they’re not building their systems like this. The Amazon way is to quickly grind something out, and build on as many layers of AWS abstractions as possible. They’re famous for the hustle and grind not the stellar engineering acumen of formal verification.
    - spwa4 9mo ago
      Goes back quite a bit further: https://www.amazon.science/tag/formal-verification https://www.amazon.science/tag/formal-verification
    - geodel 9mo ago
      Agree. I'd say they may have build 1% systems like this. But impression is whole cloud is built with formal verification
alephnerd 9mo ago
Amazon Prime Video isn't targeting the US market anymore - they made a hard pivot to India [0][1][2], and as such are primarily investing in MX Player. [0] - https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/apos-amazon-streaming-india-prime-video-and-mx-player-1236300136/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/apo... [1] - https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/prime-video-india-growth-path-lukkha-debut-1236475214/ https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/prime-video-india-growth-pa... [2] - https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/prime-video-india-content-chief-franchise-expansion-original-slate-1236323368/ https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/prime-video-india-content-c...
- pityJuke 9mo ago
  Wait, when the fuck did the Android app I used to play on-device videos with become a streaming app, that then got acquired by Amazon?! (I know the literal answer is on Wikipedia, but I’m flabbergasted.)
  - alephnerd 9mo ago
    Back in 2018-19 because their founder Karan Bedi was smart and recognized he could leverage his past corporate experience in Big Media in India in order to make MX Player a streaming platform targeting India2 and India3, and thus build a scalable business.
    - selimthegrim 9mo ago
      2nd and 3rd tier cities?
      - alephnerd 9mo ago
        Yep!
SoftTalker 9mo ago
TV is Netflix's core competency. It's a sideline at best for Amazon.
majormajor 9mo ago
Lots of companies can make decent apps. And IMO the Prime Video TV/Mobile and Amazon mobile apps are "decent" from a "they do what they're trying to do" standpoint and don't fail all the time. But they don't really think about things from a "consumer who wants to watch something tonight" vs "shopper who we want to get money from" perspective. So the Prime Video app has been painful to navigate and use. Things like concepts of how people want to interact with TV shows - one top level entry with seasons in it, vs top-level entries per season, which took them forever to change - reflect quick and dirty shoveling of concepts over from how they'd sell box sets or such vs thinking about it from a user-first POV. Or how search will return a match for just about anything because they will happily sell it to you vs having as a default "show any free results first because I'm not looking to spend more right now." That's a product/vision failure (or just mismatch with what you and I want) not an engineering/engineering culture thing.
artyom 9mo ago
This is really easy to answer, with some perspective from the inside, but mostly from public information: - Amazon has 3 main business lines ("orgs"): Ecommerce, AWS and devices. - Ecommerce and AWS are (now) cash cows. Devices bleeds money. TV falls into the devices organization. - Devices was a Bezos bet. Current Amazon couldn't care less honestly. - The devices organization is (today, after layoffs and people leaving in droves) essentially full of incompetent people, where all the leftovers of the other two orgs end up. - It's people that was hired to build structure with the sole purpose of some higher-up promotion. They never served any other purpose, neither they have any particularly sophisticated skill. - That's the people that makes the TV app.

Lammy 9mo ago

Corporations exist to support the lives of humans, not the other way around.

mikert89 9mo ago
they should give some younger people a shot to move into these management positions.
- hdgvhicv 9mo ago
  Maybe those young people should form their own company
  - rvz 9mo ago
    This is the correct answer in 2026.
charcircuit 9mo ago
They exist to provide value to other entities. There is no requirement for supporting humans or even having employees.
- SoftTalker 9mo ago
  They exist to do things that individuals could not do.
GolfPopper 9mo ago
From the corporations' point of view, humans are computing substrate. Relevant speech by SF author Charlie Stross, from the 34th Chaos Communication Congress in Leipzig, December 2017: https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2018/01/dude-you-broke-the-future.html https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2018/01/dude-yo...
- nebula8804 9mo ago
  Wow 34c3, what a blast from the past! I still don't fully understand what "tuwat" meant ha ha. The best I could come up with was "Do something. Don't ask for permission".

cmiles74 9mo ago

Isn’t that the job? I’m not even sure what “understand AI” even means, from where I sit, it maybe means “add AI to everything” and that doesn’t seem that complicated. I’m not here to defend the people in Amazon corporate, I’m just not convinced it’s okay for a big rich corporation to hire all these people and then fire them on a whim. It’s not like Amazon can’t afford it.

RHSeeger 9mo ago
And, to be realistic, "add AI to everything" is a sure sign that the person does _not_ understand AI.
- hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
  They might not understand ai, but they do understand how to keep their job and maybe get a promotion, while causing massive problems for everyone else to deal with.
- cmiles74 9mo ago
  Tell that to the people cashing big checks at Microsoft and Google. ;-)
mikert89 9mo ago
no you dont understand, the whole career ladder at amazon is clogged with people at the company 10+ years, that have been in their role 5+ years. its a big game of dont get fired, and collect pay checks as long as possible
- stanmancan 9mo ago
  Yes that’s how jobs work; you go to work, do your job, try not to get fired, and get paid for the work you do. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?
- awesome_dude 9mo ago
  > its a big game of dont get fired, and collect pay checks as long as possible That pretty much sums it up for 90% of the world's employment...

rvz 9mo ago

Exactly. This is why it makes absolutely zero sense to join Amazon right now as they are the worst ones to join [0] (Unless you specialize in robotics or actual AI and not controlling 'Agents') They are aiming to layoff 30k employees this year. They are one bad earnings away from a surprise mass layoff unfortunately. The other big tech companies are at lesser risk. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46741246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46741246

Der_Einzige 9mo ago

Fully agreed and those downvoting you are Amazon employees mad that they don’t get to bully and harass their subordinates anymore.

evantbyrne 9mo ago

Culture flows from the top down

artyom 9mo ago

1. they don't understand their own job, why they're even there, let alone AI. 2. yes, if you're talking about basic reading skills at best. 3. correct. except "autopilot" doesn't even mean solving the basic problems they're supposed to solve as part of the role. 4. which is exactly what Amazon asked them to do. > for the company to move forwards, they need a massive purge. Absolutely. Starting at the C-suite, VP, and director levels (L8 and above). Source: I was there.