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> So a U.S. citizen who is a legal, permitted gun owner with no outstanding criminal charges, legally carrying in public, who complies with the law and informs
by zahlman 10mo ago
> So a U.S. citizen who is a legal, permitted gun owner with no outstanding criminal charges, legally carrying in public, who complies with the law and informs a DHS officer that they are legally carrying, is effectively subject to summary execution without due process.... a federal officer shooting and killing a legal gun owner solely for possessing a gun in their presence.
This completely misrepresents what happened.
Another source (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/man-tackled-by-ice-in-chaos-screams-you-re-going-to-have-to-kill-me-and-i-can-t-breathe/ar-AA1UTt8v https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/man-tackled-by-ice-in-chao...) gives another claim from the same police chief:
> "The officers attempted to disarm the suspect but the armed suspect violently resisted. More details on the armed struggle are forthcoming."
And then, from the DHS:
> ...when a federal agent feared for his life, "an agent fired defensive shots." ... Border Patrol Cmdr. Greg Bovino said that the officer involved in the shooting "has extensive training," and that "the situation is evolving." Bovino added that the incident would be investigated.
(TFA includes the claim of self-defense.)
"Summary execution" and "without due process" is emotionally manipulative phrasing. It falsely implies that LEO use of lethal force is about punishment. It is not about punishment. It is about responding to perceived threat.
All this stuff about permit cards, the victim's lack of criminal history, etc. is irrelevant. It is not connected to the motivation for the shooting. There is nothing to establish that the shooting was "solely for" that possession, and LEO denies that claim. There is no plausible universe in which the officer says "please show me the permit for that weapon", Pretti says "I don't have it", and the officer shoots. But that's the narrative you appear to be trying to push.
- jeffbee 10mo ago[flagged]
- fzeroracer 10mo ago> "The officers attempted to disarm the suspect but the armed suspect violently resisted. More details on the armed struggle are forthcoming." This has already been proven to be a lie thanks to the five different videos of the incident in question. They shot him after removing his legal weapon for concealed carry that he was permitted to have on his person.
- zahlman 10mo agoShow me one of them. Show me how you think it demonstrates such a thing. Make sure it is something that starts well before the actual apprehension.
- fzeroracer 10mo ago[flagged]
- zahlman 10mo ago> Frankly if you don't change your opinion after this, then I'm going to either assume you're a federal agent attempting to maintain the propaganda line or so absolutely psychotic that you belong well and away from proper society. I am not watching your videos just because you said this. I approached the situation with a respectful disagreeing opinion and the information available to me. Everyone else here is being unreasonable and completely in violation of commenting guidelines.
- ajross 10mo ago> I am not watching your videos Oooph. Just watch it.
- dekhn 10mo agoAlthough I normally avoid these videos I did sit through all the ones I could find, and I strongly recommend watching them.
- fzeroracer 10mo ago[flagged]
- zahlman 10mo ago[flagged]
- Mawr 10mo ago
- jakelazaroff 10mo ago> Another source (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/man-tackled-by-ice-in-chaos-screams-you-re-going-to-have-to-kill-me-and-i-can-t-breathe/ar-AA1UTt8v https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/man-tackled-by-ice-in-chao...) gives another claim from the same police chief: >> "The officers attempted to disarm the suspect but the armed suspect violently resisted. More details on the armed struggle are forthcoming." You've misread your link. The "violently resisted" quote is from a tweet by DHS, not local police: https://xcancel.com/DHSgov/status/2015115351797780500 https://xcancel.com/DHSgov/status/2015115351797780500
- zahlman 10mo agoDirect multiple-paragraph quote: > The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) posted on X further details about what led up to the shooting. "DHS law enforcement officers were conducting a targeted operation in Minneapolis against an illegal alien wanted for violent assault, an individual approached US Border Patrol officers with a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun, seen here," the post reads. > O'Hara said that Pretti was a “lawful gun owner” with a permit. > "The officers attempted to disarm the suspect but the armed suspect violently resisted. More details on the armed struggle are forthcoming." > The DHS wrote that when a federal agent feared for his life, "an agent fired defensive shots." The post also noted that the "suspect" had "2 magazines and no ID." By any ordinary reading of prose, the article is attributing the quote to O'Hara.
- jakelazaroff 10mo agoSure, the article is not the clearest, but the "violently resisted" quote is taken verbatim from the DHS tweet. Just visit the link I posted, this will take you two seconds to verify.
- zahlman 10mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- tastyface 10mo ago"It is not about punishment." I’m not sure how you can possibly make that assertion. They disarmed him and then they shot him.
- zahlman 10mo ago> They disarmed him and then they shot him. So you're saying you can show me a video where it's clear that the gun is in an LEO's physical possession, everyone involved clearly has time to update on this information, and someone makes an evidently conscious decision to shoot him anyway, despite him clearly no longer posing a physical threat? Really? Because otherwise, it is not about punishment.
- bradgranath 10mo agoReally. That is exactly what happened.
- arathis 10mo agoIt’s murder. They murdered him mate.
- filoeleven 10mo agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/1qlvpbr/footage_of_the_grey_coat_officer_retrieving_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/1qlvpbr/footage_of_the...
- mvdtnz 10mo agoIt couldn't be any clearer, that is the weapon from the photos of the victim's gun. This changed my mind, the man was shot AFTER he was disarmed.
- tastyface 10mo agoBellingcat: https://bsky.app/profile/bellingcat.com/post/3md7banbjks2x https://bsky.app/profile/bellingcat.com/post/3md7banbjks2x These investigators are not amateurs, and that’s putting it lightly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellingcat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellingcat
- ajross 10mo agoI suspect it won't matter to you, but there's clear footage now of officers having removed the gun from the suspect long before he was shot. He was pinned and prone when he was executed. Claiming this was "defensive" is just a lie.
- jbullock35 10mo agoI've watched four videos but haven't seen any footage (clear or otherwise) of gun removal. Can you post a link to clear footage of the removal? One video [1] shows someone walking away from the scene with a gun a fraction of a second before the shooting begins. But I can't see that the gun was removed from the protester. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/1qlvpbr/footage_of_the_grey_coat_officer_retrieving_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/1qlvpbr/footage_of_the...
- ajross 10mo agohttps://x.com/rgoodlaw/status/2015144869497311275 https://x.com/rgoodlaw/status/2015144869497311275
- jbullock35 10mo agoThanks. The link is to a Bellingcat analysis. They did great work on the Renee Good shooting, but in this case, they're describing stills from videos, and I can't see what they're seeing in the photos. The photos are just too fuzzy---at least for me, and I suspect for most other viewers. I don't mean to diminish the importance of the shooting, which is horrific no matter what one makes of the photos.
- dekhn 10mo agoI think it's factually correct to say that none of the videos give a truly clear view of the order of events (specfically with regards to whether the protestor could possibly have wielded their gun while being restrained by agents, or whether he is disarmed by the gray-jacketed agent, or what caused the agents to fire when they did). It might be clearer if the agents were wearing bodycam videos and that footage was released.
- filoeleven 10mo ago> "Summary execution" and "without due process" is emotionally manipulative phrasing. It's exactly what this was, though. He was disarmed before being shoved to the ground and beaten with a gas grenade. There is another video which shows that his hands are on the ground or in front of his face, the entire time he's down, long before he's shot. Watch the fucking videos.
- camillomiller 10mo ago[flagged]
- queenkjuul 10mo agoDHS has yet to release a factually accurate statement about any ICE-involved violence, you really think this time they're telling the truth? You know you can watch the videos yourself
- camillomiller 10mo agoHonestly, man, there is no other answer to this than this: you are a nazi sympathizer.
- esseph 9mo ago> This completely misrepresents what happened. Didn't age so well. You took the narrative very easily. Might consider "Why".