4 ms·

I agree we should generally accommodate as many people as possible for the greater good of our communities, regardless of how we may feel at the time. What is

I agree we should generally accommodate as many people as possible for the greater good of our communities, regardless of how we may feel at the time. What is your view when they don't extend the same courtesy? We convince them to vaccinate to protect those who cannot be vaccinated, however they still dig their heels in the "got mine, forget you" mentality until it affects them personally? (Abortion rights, school lunches, walkable neighborhoods, food shelters and donation centers)

echelon 9mo ago
Every single one of these wasn't originally a problem until it became politicized. Abortion was legal until it became a political issue in the 1800s. Churches used to be food banks in the 80's, then "welfare" became political. People got vaccinated until it became a political issue in the 2020s. Many of the elder anti-vaxxers remember getting vaccinated for Polio and how scary that was.
- B1FIDO 9mo ago
  Abortion was legal, but wasn't it sort of extraordinarily dangerous? I mean, particularly a surgical abortion would have been, at that time. For millennia there had been instructions and recipes for making abortifacient concoctions, to good or bad effect. Many of them are highly toxic to the mother herself. So many abortion-minded women faced the proposition of harming themselves to get at their unborn children. And that is the premise of "legalizing" it: that it can be made "safe" and so they wouldn't need to use a coat-hanger in a back-alley "anymore" (although practically nobody did such things.)
  - BrandoElFollito 9mo ago
    There were hundreds of thousands of deaths of women who attempted abortion in Europe after the war. This was done via various artisanal mechanical methods. If men were giving birth, abortion would be "obviously a choice". (I am a man and a father)
  - orwin 8mo ago
    Abortion was less dangerous than giving birth, especially for young (16-) women with smaller hips. The proposition was often "harm yourself, and maybe painfully sterilize yourself" or "maybe die". Marriage as a sacrament (and age limitations) did not come from nowhere. And abortion was probably still used by older women too: the risk decrease with each child, but increase with age.
- B1FIDO 9mo ago
  Churches used to be the only source of welfare support for American citizens (and in other nations) until the New Deal. One of the central tenets of the New Deal was that, in a pluralistic society, under disestablishmentarianism, it was unfair to expect families to rely on charity from religious groups where they didn't subscribe to their creeds and didn't share their faith or beliefs. If you accepted charity from, e.g. the Baptists, would you find yourself indebted to them, spiritually? That is a large reason why secular welfare states became so important and popular with voters. Because if the State managed the welfare, the purse strings, the distribution, and the need-based awards, nobody needed to worry about whose church was doling out the food, clothing, or housing. Interestingly, though, through a number of turns, the State is actually funding faith-based charities now to distribute all that food, clothing, and shelter. Or some/most of it. Obviously, secular housing authorities are handling Section 8 Vouchers, but a lot of shelters are religious facilities and they're run by church volunteers. Food banks, funded by the USDA, may be non-profits, or churches, synagogues, or community colleges. But they're all receiving USDA funding, and they all follow USDA policies to distribute that same food and assistance.
- hackingonempty 8mo ago
  > Abortion was legal until it became a political issue in the 1800s. Not according to Dobbs, which goes into this extensively. "At common law, abortion was criminal in at least some stages of pregnancy and was regarded as unlawful and could have very serious consequences at all stages. American law followed the common law until a wave of statutory restrictions in the 1800s expanded criminal liability for abortions. By the time of the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment, three-quarters of the States had made abortion a crime at any stage of pregnancy, and the remaining States would soon follow."

echelon 9mo ago

Every single one of these wasn't originally a problem until it became politicized. Abortion was legal until it became a political issue in the 1800s. Churches used to be food banks in the 80's, then "welfare" became political. People got vaccinated until it became a political issue in the 2020s. Many of the elder anti-vaxxers remember getting vaccinated for Polio and how scary that was.

B1FIDO 9mo ago
Abortion was legal, but wasn't it sort of extraordinarily dangerous? I mean, particularly a surgical abortion would have been, at that time. For millennia there had been instructions and recipes for making abortifacient concoctions, to good or bad effect. Many of them are highly toxic to the mother herself. So many abortion-minded women faced the proposition of harming themselves to get at their unborn children. And that is the premise of "legalizing" it: that it can be made "safe" and so they wouldn't need to use a coat-hanger in a back-alley "anymore" (although practically nobody did such things.)
- BrandoElFollito 9mo ago
  There were hundreds of thousands of deaths of women who attempted abortion in Europe after the war. This was done via various artisanal mechanical methods. If men were giving birth, abortion would be "obviously a choice". (I am a man and a father)
- orwin 8mo ago
  Abortion was less dangerous than giving birth, especially for young (16-) women with smaller hips. The proposition was often "harm yourself, and maybe painfully sterilize yourself" or "maybe die". Marriage as a sacrament (and age limitations) did not come from nowhere. And abortion was probably still used by older women too: the risk decrease with each child, but increase with age.
B1FIDO 9mo ago
Churches used to be the only source of welfare support for American citizens (and in other nations) until the New Deal. One of the central tenets of the New Deal was that, in a pluralistic society, under disestablishmentarianism, it was unfair to expect families to rely on charity from religious groups where they didn't subscribe to their creeds and didn't share their faith or beliefs. If you accepted charity from, e.g. the Baptists, would you find yourself indebted to them, spiritually? That is a large reason why secular welfare states became so important and popular with voters. Because if the State managed the welfare, the purse strings, the distribution, and the need-based awards, nobody needed to worry about whose church was doling out the food, clothing, or housing. Interestingly, though, through a number of turns, the State is actually funding faith-based charities now to distribute all that food, clothing, and shelter. Or some/most of it. Obviously, secular housing authorities are handling Section 8 Vouchers, but a lot of shelters are religious facilities and they're run by church volunteers. Food banks, funded by the USDA, may be non-profits, or churches, synagogues, or community colleges. But they're all receiving USDA funding, and they all follow USDA policies to distribute that same food and assistance.
hackingonempty 8mo ago
> Abortion was legal until it became a political issue in the 1800s. Not according to Dobbs, which goes into this extensively. "At common law, abortion was criminal in at least some stages of pregnancy and was regarded as unlawful and could have very serious consequences at all stages. American law followed the common law until a wave of statutory restrictions in the 1800s expanded criminal liability for abortions. By the time of the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment, three-quarters of the States had made abortion a crime at any stage of pregnancy, and the remaining States would soon follow."