4 ms·

HN (and Reddit) are not social media, they are forums. Social media are platforms where the main purpose is to socialise. Forums are platforms where the main pu

HN (and Reddit) are not social media, they are forums. Social media are platforms where the main purpose is to socialise. Forums are platforms where the main purpose is to discuss the topic of any given thread. Just because you can talk to someone, doesn't make it social media. I will die on this hill.

beowulfey 9mo ago
Fully agree. Forums predate social media and are some of the oldest parts of the internet. And it's not quite socializing... it's more like, are you broadcasting and consuming content? Or discussing it?
dlivingston 9mo ago
Fully agree. And more than that, I think you're objectively correct. Think about the evolution of the term "social media". It evolved from social networks, which themselves evolved from forums. The "media" in "social media" refers to third-party content that is algorithmically boosted through social signals, with signals from your own network weighting higher, and in the end creating a personalized algorithm of media content. There is no personalized media on HN. It's the same feed for everyone. There is no network on HN. No friends, follows, private messages. So there's no social to HN, and no (personalized) media, and no network.
dangus 9mo ago
HN and Reddit aren’t traditional forums because of the way downvotes and upvotes work. I would consider a forum to be defined by the most recent activity bringing the thread to the top of the list, not a popularity contest via upvote and downvote. I also think HN has become too general purpose to be similar in spirit to most forums. Being seen on HN has major dollar value just like trending on Reddit does. Also, have you used Reddit recently? Open up Reddit on the app. No using old.reddit.com, doesn’t count. That’s not the experience most users are using. Go to the watch section. I think you swipe left or right or something? I forget, I deleted the app. Bam, it’s TikTok.
manuelmoreale 9mo ago
The moment you insert algorithmic curation it stops being “just” a forum IMO. The moment you add gamification on top (karma points, likes, rewards) it stops being just a forum. Reddit is definitely not a forum the same way old-school forums were forums. And I don’t believe you can, with a straight face, say that they’re the same. Also, “Forums are platforms where the main purpose is to discuss the topic of any given thread”. That’s a very broad definition. Depending on how loose you want to enforce that you can convince me that Twitter and YouTube are forums. Plus, “discuss the topic of any given thread” you say this in a thread about TikTok collecting more data while you’re clearly talking about something unrelated to that. These definitions are blurry. If I told you “we should set up a forum” you’d not instinctively think we’re creating Reddit, and for good reasons. But I’ll agree that HN is probably the more forum than social media if we were to place it on a scale. And that’s how these platforms should be judged imo: on a scale.
- reactordev 9mo ago
  I remember a time when Reddit didn’t exist. When phpBB and vBulletin were the hottest ways to build a community around a theme. I remember when they would get so large that you would need volunteers to help moderate. Now, karma and all that came from a way of making it so that the admins of this site have to do less moderation and let the best participants of this site have that power. It’s ultimate democracy.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    Democracy is extremely vulnerable to manipulation, especially if you don't verify identity.
    - reactordev 9mo ago
      Except karma is tracked by your user…? I fail to see where you’re going with this. I’m not talking about political elections.
      - 9mo ago
davkan 9mo ago
Modern reddit behaves like social media unless you limit yourself to very niche insular subreddits that do not reach r/all. Overall the site has become social media. Any sub that reaches critical mass gets absorbed into the slop hivemind. Browsing r/all is almost indistinguishable from browsing public facebook posts nowadays. Just loads and loads of bot slop catch-all subreddits like r/interestingasfuck or r/woahthatscool and drama subreddits like r/amioverracting. My filter list is over 100 subs long at this point. When i log on to an actual classic forum like tacomaforum.com the difference is stark.

beowulfey 9mo ago

Fully agree. Forums predate social media and are some of the oldest parts of the internet. And it's not quite socializing... it's more like, are you broadcasting and consuming content? Or discussing it?

dlivingston 9mo ago

Fully agree. And more than that, I think you're objectively correct. Think about the evolution of the term "social media". It evolved from social networks, which themselves evolved from forums. The "media" in "social media" refers to third-party content that is algorithmically boosted through social signals, with signals from your own network weighting higher, and in the end creating a personalized algorithm of media content. There is no personalized media on HN. It's the same feed for everyone. There is no network on HN. No friends, follows, private messages. So there's no social to HN, and no (personalized) media, and no network.

dangus 9mo ago

HN and Reddit aren’t traditional forums because of the way downvotes and upvotes work. I would consider a forum to be defined by the most recent activity bringing the thread to the top of the list, not a popularity contest via upvote and downvote. I also think HN has become too general purpose to be similar in spirit to most forums. Being seen on HN has major dollar value just like trending on Reddit does. Also, have you used Reddit recently? Open up Reddit on the app. No using old.reddit.com, doesn’t count. That’s not the experience most users are using. Go to the watch section. I think you swipe left or right or something? I forget, I deleted the app. Bam, it’s TikTok.

manuelmoreale 9mo ago

The moment you insert algorithmic curation it stops being “just” a forum IMO. The moment you add gamification on top (karma points, likes, rewards) it stops being just a forum. Reddit is definitely not a forum the same way old-school forums were forums. And I don’t believe you can, with a straight face, say that they’re the same. Also, “Forums are platforms where the main purpose is to discuss the topic of any given thread”. That’s a very broad definition. Depending on how loose you want to enforce that you can convince me that Twitter and YouTube are forums. Plus, “discuss the topic of any given thread” you say this in a thread about TikTok collecting more data while you’re clearly talking about something unrelated to that. These definitions are blurry. If I told you “we should set up a forum” you’d not instinctively think we’re creating Reddit, and for good reasons. But I’ll agree that HN is probably the more forum than social media if we were to place it on a scale. And that’s how these platforms should be judged imo: on a scale.

reactordev 9mo ago
I remember a time when Reddit didn’t exist. When phpBB and vBulletin were the hottest ways to build a community around a theme. I remember when they would get so large that you would need volunteers to help moderate. Now, karma and all that came from a way of making it so that the admins of this site have to do less moderation and let the best participants of this site have that power. It’s ultimate democracy.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  Democracy is extremely vulnerable to manipulation, especially if you don't verify identity.
  - reactordev 9mo ago
    Except karma is tracked by your user…? I fail to see where you’re going with this. I’m not talking about political elections.
    - 9mo ago

davkan 9mo ago

Modern reddit behaves like social media unless you limit yourself to very niche insular subreddits that do not reach r/all. Overall the site has become social media. Any sub that reaches critical mass gets absorbed into the slop hivemind. Browsing r/all is almost indistinguishable from browsing public facebook posts nowadays. Just loads and loads of bot slop catch-all subreddits like r/interestingasfuck or r/woahthatscool and drama subreddits like r/amioverracting. My filter list is over 100 subs long at this point. When i log on to an actual classic forum like tacomaforum.com the difference is stark.