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Social Media is evil. Don't participate.

by reactordev 9mo ago

direwolf20 9mo ago
Hacker News is Social Media
- coldtea 9mo ago
  Barely. It's like saying "don't do drugs" (thinking of heroin, meth, coke and that sort) and someone else says "caffeine is a drug too".
  - scarecrowbob 9mo ago
    More like "alcohol is a drug".
    - direwolf20 9mo ago
      and alcohol is worse for you than several illegal drugs
    - halJordan 9mo ago
      Are we really taking the position that alcohol precipitated crimes are not a thing? If you take that position it's because DV and drunk driving are so normalized in this country that you don't even consider them heinous anymore. SAS, but understandable
      - scarecrowbob 9mo ago
        My point is that HN is, in fact, social media. HN may be more normalized, in the way that alcohol is more normal than meth in my circles. And folks my find HN to be more "useful", in the sense that I find being able to have a drink and socialize useful but don't feel the same way about casual adderall usage. Unlike caffeine, however, (and this is the point I am responding to), I don't think that the HN is any -less- social media. Caffeine is indeed a drug but has relatively (to alcohol) minor effects, especially looking at the longer-term differences- that's the point of the parent post. I think that, like most of the social drinkers I know, the users of HN don't feel like there's anything abusive about how they are using it. I also see folks who are definitely getting their social media fix off the site.
- GlumWoodpecker 9mo ago
  HN (and Reddit) are not social media, they are forums. Social media are platforms where the main purpose is to socialise. Forums are platforms where the main purpose is to discuss the topic of any given thread. Just because you can talk to someone, doesn't make it social media. I will die on this hill.
  - beowulfey 9mo ago
    Fully agree. Forums predate social media and are some of the oldest parts of the internet. And it's not quite socializing... it's more like, are you broadcasting and consuming content? Or discussing it?
  - dlivingston 9mo ago
    Fully agree. And more than that, I think you're objectively correct. Think about the evolution of the term "social media". It evolved from social networks, which themselves evolved from forums. The "media" in "social media" refers to third-party content that is algorithmically boosted through social signals, with signals from your own network weighting higher, and in the end creating a personalized algorithm of media content. There is no personalized media on HN. It's the same feed for everyone. There is no network on HN. No friends, follows, private messages. So there's no social to HN, and no (personalized) media, and no network.
  - dangus 9mo ago
    HN and Reddit aren’t traditional forums because of the way downvotes and upvotes work. I would consider a forum to be defined by the most recent activity bringing the thread to the top of the list, not a popularity contest via upvote and downvote. I also think HN has become too general purpose to be similar in spirit to most forums. Being seen on HN has major dollar value just like trending on Reddit does. Also, have you used Reddit recently? Open up Reddit on the app. No using old.reddit.com, doesn’t count. That’s not the experience most users are using. Go to the watch section. I think you swipe left or right or something? I forget, I deleted the app. Bam, it’s TikTok.
  - manuelmoreale 9mo ago
    The moment you insert algorithmic curation it stops being “just” a forum IMO. The moment you add gamification on top (karma points, likes, rewards) it stops being just a forum. Reddit is definitely not a forum the same way old-school forums were forums. And I don’t believe you can, with a straight face, say that they’re the same. Also, “Forums are platforms where the main purpose is to discuss the topic of any given thread”. That’s a very broad definition. Depending on how loose you want to enforce that you can convince me that Twitter and YouTube are forums. Plus, “discuss the topic of any given thread” you say this in a thread about TikTok collecting more data while you’re clearly talking about something unrelated to that. These definitions are blurry. If I told you “we should set up a forum” you’d not instinctively think we’re creating Reddit, and for good reasons. But I’ll agree that HN is probably the more forum than social media if we were to place it on a scale. And that’s how these platforms should be judged imo: on a scale.
- kyralis 9mo ago
  It is not. It is not personalized based on your social circle or activity.

Social Media is evil. Don't participate.

direwolf20 9mo ago

Hacker News is Social Media

coldtea 9mo ago
Barely. It's like saying "don't do drugs" (thinking of heroin, meth, coke and that sort) and someone else says "caffeine is a drug too".
- scarecrowbob 9mo ago
  More like "alcohol is a drug".
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    and alcohol is worse for you than several illegal drugs
  - halJordan 9mo ago
    Are we really taking the position that alcohol precipitated crimes are not a thing? If you take that position it's because DV and drunk driving are so normalized in this country that you don't even consider them heinous anymore. SAS, but understandable
    - scarecrowbob 9mo ago
      My point is that HN is, in fact, social media. HN may be more normalized, in the way that alcohol is more normal than meth in my circles. And folks my find HN to be more "useful", in the sense that I find being able to have a drink and socialize useful but don't feel the same way about casual adderall usage. Unlike caffeine, however, (and this is the point I am responding to), I don't think that the HN is any -less- social media. Caffeine is indeed a drug but has relatively (to alcohol) minor effects, especially looking at the longer-term differences- that's the point of the parent post. I think that, like most of the social drinkers I know, the users of HN don't feel like there's anything abusive about how they are using it. I also see folks who are definitely getting their social media fix off the site.
GlumWoodpecker 9mo ago
HN (and Reddit) are not social media, they are forums. Social media are platforms where the main purpose is to socialise. Forums are platforms where the main purpose is to discuss the topic of any given thread. Just because you can talk to someone, doesn't make it social media. I will die on this hill.
- beowulfey 9mo ago
  Fully agree. Forums predate social media and are some of the oldest parts of the internet. And it's not quite socializing... it's more like, are you broadcasting and consuming content? Or discussing it?
- dlivingston 9mo ago
  Fully agree. And more than that, I think you're objectively correct. Think about the evolution of the term "social media". It evolved from social networks, which themselves evolved from forums. The "media" in "social media" refers to third-party content that is algorithmically boosted through social signals, with signals from your own network weighting higher, and in the end creating a personalized algorithm of media content. There is no personalized media on HN. It's the same feed for everyone. There is no network on HN. No friends, follows, private messages. So there's no social to HN, and no (personalized) media, and no network.
- dangus 9mo ago
  HN and Reddit aren’t traditional forums because of the way downvotes and upvotes work. I would consider a forum to be defined by the most recent activity bringing the thread to the top of the list, not a popularity contest via upvote and downvote. I also think HN has become too general purpose to be similar in spirit to most forums. Being seen on HN has major dollar value just like trending on Reddit does. Also, have you used Reddit recently? Open up Reddit on the app. No using old.reddit.com, doesn’t count. That’s not the experience most users are using. Go to the watch section. I think you swipe left or right or something? I forget, I deleted the app. Bam, it’s TikTok.
- manuelmoreale 9mo ago
  The moment you insert algorithmic curation it stops being “just” a forum IMO. The moment you add gamification on top (karma points, likes, rewards) it stops being just a forum. Reddit is definitely not a forum the same way old-school forums were forums. And I don’t believe you can, with a straight face, say that they’re the same. Also, “Forums are platforms where the main purpose is to discuss the topic of any given thread”. That’s a very broad definition. Depending on how loose you want to enforce that you can convince me that Twitter and YouTube are forums. Plus, “discuss the topic of any given thread” you say this in a thread about TikTok collecting more data while you’re clearly talking about something unrelated to that. These definitions are blurry. If I told you “we should set up a forum” you’d not instinctively think we’re creating Reddit, and for good reasons. But I’ll agree that HN is probably the more forum than social media if we were to place it on a scale. And that’s how these platforms should be judged imo: on a scale.
kyralis 9mo ago
It is not. It is not personalized based on your social circle or activity.