4 ms·

Okay, so you're mad that your country is too stupid to regulate it's own business? The regulation also forced all merchants to accept Visa/MC without being abl

Okay, so you're mad that your country is too stupid to regulate it's own business? The regulation also forced all merchants to accept Visa/MC without being able to surcharge a fee for it. Both Companies are quite happy with that deal as it boasted the adoption for their cards across Europe

0xDEAFBEAD 9mo ago
See this illustrates my point. The "soft power" talking point I sometimes see from Europeans is a complete lie. The idea is that giving Europe relatively favorable terms will cause Europe to regard the US well is a fabrication. In reality, giving Europe favorable terms just causes Europeans to view Americans as suckers.
- kergonath 9mo ago
  You are deluded. Nobody "gave Europe a sweet deal". Those are the rules of the land. Companies are free to reject them, in which case they just cannot do business here. We did not force them to come. The fact that they are still obviously making tons of money in the EU should tell you how you are being taken advantage of.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 9mo ago
    So you acknowledge that this point about "protection money" (the point I was originally responding to) is nonsense then. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46736657 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46736657
    - hermanzegerman 9mo ago
      Protection Money is as much nonsense as "Europeans are ripping off Americans in Trade". Because they always conveniently leave out services, which would make the Balance between the US/EU even
    - kergonath 9mo ago
      Right. It’s not really protection money. It’s just a duopoly under the control of a rogue foreign power that control any entity’s access to customer’s payments. So even if it’s not protection money, the risk of blackmail is high. It is a strategic weakness.
- hermanzegerman 9mo ago
  As the other guy said you're completely deluded. Nobody "gave" us cheaper credit card fees from MasterCard or Visa. They were the result of a regulatory process. MasterCard or Visa also aren't operating as a charity in Europe. Before the capping of fees was introduced, their acceptance was shit at most businesses, and most bank consumers also didn't have one, as opposed to cards of the national scheme which had lower fees both for customers and merchants
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 9mo ago
    So initially MasterCard/Visa profits in Europe are "protection money". Then it comes out that MasterCard/Visa fees in Europe are actually far lower than in the US. Now the Europeans are laughing at the Americans for being suckers. This interaction basically sums up the entire EU/US relationship and the absurdity of Europe's rhetoric around it. Copy/paste this template, change a few words, and it applies pretty much everywhere.
    - hermanzegerman 9mo ago
      We don't laugh at Americans for being suckers, we feel sorry for them that they have to live with all this nonsense, and their current horrible administration. And we also look with horror because most of the bullshit in the US is coming to Europe with a 20 year delay
      - 0xDEAFBEAD 9mo ago
        I'll feel very sorry for you and your country's horrible administration when the Russians are invading your country.
        corford 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        0xDEAFBEAD 9mo ago
- _zagj 9mo ago
  > soft power Go look at what these people thought of us before Trump: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-of-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-of-the-u... > Sweden: 47% had a favorable opinion of the US.; Germany: 49%; France: 46%; The Netherlands: 48% And this was after the US committed over $120 billion in aid (all weapons and cash) to Ukraine, and, for some reason, allowed Sweden to join NATO--the same Sweden that pledged neutrality when Finland was invaded by the Soviets, who stole the Karelian Isthmus and other bits of its territory, and similarly did nothing when Norway and Denmark were invaded and occupied by Nazi Germany.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 9mo ago
    Yes, there is no point in trying to make Europeans happy. They are impossible to please. You can see our favorability in Europe was barely net positive then. By May of last year (before the Greenland drama--I'm against that of course), more Europeans liked China better than the US. Maybe we should start shipping materials for weapons to Russia, like China does, to see if that improves our popularity with Europe. "Soft power" is an absurd talking point. Doing nice things for Europe has brought us nothing but anger and contempt. Just scroll through this thread, there's plenty of proof. They are a very entitled and condescending people.
  - the_why_of_y 9mo ago
    > what these people thought of us before Trump Last I checked, Trump was elected in 2016. In 2021 he tried an autogolpe and by the time this survey was done in 2024, he was not in prison for treason but instead again running for president as nominee of one of only two major parties. What sort of opinion should one have of such a country? > allowed Sweden to join NATO What sort of absurd argument is this? Now that Sweden changed their mind and want to enter treaty obligations to help defend e.g. the Baltics, we should refuse them? Also, I can't begin to comprehend how Sweden would militarily defend Finland, who entered WW2 as an ally of Nazi Germany after being invaded by USSR, and simultaneously fight against Nazi Germany.

0xDEAFBEAD 9mo ago

See this illustrates my point. The "soft power" talking point I sometimes see from Europeans is a complete lie. The idea is that giving Europe relatively favorable terms will cause Europe to regard the US well is a fabrication. In reality, giving Europe favorable terms just causes Europeans to view Americans as suckers.

kergonath 9mo ago
You are deluded. Nobody "gave Europe a sweet deal". Those are the rules of the land. Companies are free to reject them, in which case they just cannot do business here. We did not force them to come. The fact that they are still obviously making tons of money in the EU should tell you how you are being taken advantage of.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 9mo ago
  So you acknowledge that this point about "protection money" (the point I was originally responding to) is nonsense then. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46736657 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46736657
  - hermanzegerman 9mo ago
    Protection Money is as much nonsense as "Europeans are ripping off Americans in Trade". Because they always conveniently leave out services, which would make the Balance between the US/EU even
  - kergonath 9mo ago
    Right. It’s not really protection money. It’s just a duopoly under the control of a rogue foreign power that control any entity’s access to customer’s payments. So even if it’s not protection money, the risk of blackmail is high. It is a strategic weakness.
hermanzegerman 9mo ago
As the other guy said you're completely deluded. Nobody "gave" us cheaper credit card fees from MasterCard or Visa. They were the result of a regulatory process. MasterCard or Visa also aren't operating as a charity in Europe. Before the capping of fees was introduced, their acceptance was shit at most businesses, and most bank consumers also didn't have one, as opposed to cards of the national scheme which had lower fees both for customers and merchants
- 0xDEAFBEAD 9mo ago
  So initially MasterCard/Visa profits in Europe are "protection money". Then it comes out that MasterCard/Visa fees in Europe are actually far lower than in the US. Now the Europeans are laughing at the Americans for being suckers. This interaction basically sums up the entire EU/US relationship and the absurdity of Europe's rhetoric around it. Copy/paste this template, change a few words, and it applies pretty much everywhere.
  - hermanzegerman 9mo ago
    We don't laugh at Americans for being suckers, we feel sorry for them that they have to live with all this nonsense, and their current horrible administration. And we also look with horror because most of the bullshit in the US is coming to Europe with a 20 year delay
    - 0xDEAFBEAD 9mo ago
      I'll feel very sorry for you and your country's horrible administration when the Russians are invading your country.
      - corford 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        0xDEAFBEAD 9mo ago
_zagj 9mo ago
> soft power Go look at what these people thought of us before Trump: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-of-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-of-the-u... > Sweden: 47% had a favorable opinion of the US.; Germany: 49%; France: 46%; The Netherlands: 48% And this was after the US committed over $120 billion in aid (all weapons and cash) to Ukraine, and, for some reason, allowed Sweden to join NATO--the same Sweden that pledged neutrality when Finland was invaded by the Soviets, who stole the Karelian Isthmus and other bits of its territory, and similarly did nothing when Norway and Denmark were invaded and occupied by Nazi Germany.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 9mo ago
  Yes, there is no point in trying to make Europeans happy. They are impossible to please. You can see our favorability in Europe was barely net positive then. By May of last year (before the Greenland drama--I'm against that of course), more Europeans liked China better than the US. Maybe we should start shipping materials for weapons to Russia, like China does, to see if that improves our popularity with Europe. "Soft power" is an absurd talking point. Doing nice things for Europe has brought us nothing but anger and contempt. Just scroll through this thread, there's plenty of proof. They are a very entitled and condescending people.
- the_why_of_y 9mo ago
  > what these people thought of us before Trump Last I checked, Trump was elected in 2016. In 2021 he tried an autogolpe and by the time this survey was done in 2024, he was not in prison for treason but instead again running for president as nominee of one of only two major parties. What sort of opinion should one have of such a country? > allowed Sweden to join NATO What sort of absurd argument is this? Now that Sweden changed their mind and want to enter treaty obligations to help defend e.g. the Baltics, we should refuse them? Also, I can't begin to comprehend how Sweden would militarily defend Finland, who entered WW2 as an ally of Nazi Germany after being invaded by USSR, and simultaneously fight against Nazi Germany.