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1. Because both states are nationalist and authoritarian, and both states have an alternative medicine practice that's culturally tied to them. It's a pretty go

by aprilthird2021 9mo ago

1. Because both states are nationalist and authoritarian, and both states have an alternative medicine practice that's culturally tied to them. It's a pretty good analogy imo, and it helps to understand how such a state would act by having an anlogue to compare it to 2. Ayurvedic and TCM largely refers to those things which haven't undergone clinical trials to understand their efficacy as prescribed medicines. Anything from that sphere which is clinically proven to work and is dispensed as prescription medicine just becomes part of medicine. It's not about "stealing" or whatever, it's about whether people should be given proven effective medicines or hopefully effective medicines, the former being what we should promote globally

disgruntledphd2 9mo ago
> Ayurvedic and TCM largely refers to those things which haven't undergone clinical trials to understand their efficacy as prescribed medicines. Interestingly enough, RCTs of acupuncture (with sham needles) show pretty large effect sizes for many treatments but only in China, which is super weird. The most likely explanation is that the blinding doesn't work (which is a perennial problem in basically all RCTs), but it's interesting nonetheless.
SanjayMehta 9mo ago
[flagged]
lateforwork 9mo ago
> clinical trials Keep in mind that the Western system is not perfect either. Many good natural medicines are ignored by western countries because they have not undergone clinical trials. Why haven't they undergone clinical trials? Because that takes large amounts of money and no one is going to make that investment unless they can patent the molecule. Of course, natural medicines that have been in use for hundreds if not thousands of years are not patentable, so no one will do a clinical trial for them. As a result, when you go to a doctor in a western country they are completely ignorant about natural medicines and will only prescribe drugs pushed by big pharma.
- aprilthird2021 9mo ago
  > Why haven't they undergone clinical trials? Because that takes large amounts of money and no one is going to make that investment unless they can patent the molecule. The Ramdevs and Patanjalis of the world could easily afford to do this and would boost their sales 100x if they could. They already sell unpatentable remedies and powders with great profit (but decamp to Western hospitals when they are actually sick)
  - lateforwork 9mo ago
    We don't have to look at TCM or Ayurveda. Let's consider a simple, well-known, natural molecule: magnesium. Go to Amazon and search for product reviews for magnesium and magnesium l-threonate supplements. You'll see tons of people using magnesium effectively for muscle tightness, and insomnia. Yet doctors never recommend it, and are confused when told that it works for you. Why is this? It is because big pharma is not pushing it. There are no major clinical trials going on for it in order to prove that it is safe and effective for these purposes. Why? Because it is not patentable.
    - Nursie 9mo ago
      This is absolute nonsense. Doctors test for deficiencies in vitamins and minerals and recommend cheap effective supplements to address them and other conditions all the frickin time. My partner is currently taking completely unpatentable iron supplements for a deficiency and I am taking cheap, unpatentable psyllium husk for gut health and cholesterol management, both on the advice of our (Western, evidence-based) doctors. This meme that ‘western’ doctors are only interested in peddling expensive pharmaceuticals and don’t look ‘holistically’ at patient health, or recommend cheap, effective treatments … it’s just not true at all.
      - lateforwork 9mo ago
        It is absolutely true for certain conditions. If you have insomnia and go to a doctor they want to put you on Ambien CR for the rest of your life. There aren't even any reliable tests for magnesium deficiency. Psyllium husk for cholesterol? Never heard a doctor mention that, all they recommend is statins. Your experience is clearly different from mine. The notion that Western doctors recommend natural medicines when possible is extraordinary. If they did, naturopathic doctors will not have jobs.

disgruntledphd2 9mo ago

> Ayurvedic and TCM largely refers to those things which haven't undergone clinical trials to understand their efficacy as prescribed medicines. Interestingly enough, RCTs of acupuncture (with sham needles) show pretty large effect sizes for many treatments but only in China, which is super weird. The most likely explanation is that the blinding doesn't work (which is a perennial problem in basically all RCTs), but it's interesting nonetheless.

SanjayMehta 9mo ago

[flagged]

lateforwork 9mo ago

> clinical trials Keep in mind that the Western system is not perfect either. Many good natural medicines are ignored by western countries because they have not undergone clinical trials. Why haven't they undergone clinical trials? Because that takes large amounts of money and no one is going to make that investment unless they can patent the molecule. Of course, natural medicines that have been in use for hundreds if not thousands of years are not patentable, so no one will do a clinical trial for them. As a result, when you go to a doctor in a western country they are completely ignorant about natural medicines and will only prescribe drugs pushed by big pharma.

aprilthird2021 9mo ago
> Why haven't they undergone clinical trials? Because that takes large amounts of money and no one is going to make that investment unless they can patent the molecule. The Ramdevs and Patanjalis of the world could easily afford to do this and would boost their sales 100x if they could. They already sell unpatentable remedies and powders with great profit (but decamp to Western hospitals when they are actually sick)
- lateforwork 9mo ago
  We don't have to look at TCM or Ayurveda. Let's consider a simple, well-known, natural molecule: magnesium. Go to Amazon and search for product reviews for magnesium and magnesium l-threonate supplements. You'll see tons of people using magnesium effectively for muscle tightness, and insomnia. Yet doctors never recommend it, and are confused when told that it works for you. Why is this? It is because big pharma is not pushing it. There are no major clinical trials going on for it in order to prove that it is safe and effective for these purposes. Why? Because it is not patentable.
  - Nursie 9mo ago
    This is absolute nonsense. Doctors test for deficiencies in vitamins and minerals and recommend cheap effective supplements to address them and other conditions all the frickin time. My partner is currently taking completely unpatentable iron supplements for a deficiency and I am taking cheap, unpatentable psyllium husk for gut health and cholesterol management, both on the advice of our (Western, evidence-based) doctors. This meme that ‘western’ doctors are only interested in peddling expensive pharmaceuticals and don’t look ‘holistically’ at patient health, or recommend cheap, effective treatments … it’s just not true at all.
    - lateforwork 9mo ago
      It is absolutely true for certain conditions. If you have insomnia and go to a doctor they want to put you on Ambien CR for the rest of your life. There aren't even any reliable tests for magnesium deficiency. Psyllium husk for cholesterol? Never heard a doctor mention that, all they recommend is statins. Your experience is clearly different from mine. The notion that Western doctors recommend natural medicines when possible is extraordinary. If they did, naturopathic doctors will not have jobs.