5 ms·

The US national debt will soon be growing faster than the economy itself

30 points by testing22321 9mo ago

SilverElfin 9mo ago
Reminder that Trump’s One Big Beautiful Bill is going to add, at minimum, 4 trillion in new debt. That’s per the CBO. And if he gets the additional funding increases he is seeking this year, he will add another 5 trillion over the next ten years. That’s 9 trillion before half his term is up. That money will go to the Trump family, their friends, friendly businesses who get government contracts, etc. But the cost will fall on all Americans. In the end I don’t see a way out without hyperinflation, which is another way of saying - we will be poor to prop up oligarchs who have hoarded billions in dishonest ways. But the administration is asking us to ignore what our eyes see and instead worry about some insignificant fraud that some Somalians allegedly perpetrated, even though it is tiny by comparison.
- scrubs 9mo ago
  Moreover it'll ruin USD as a reserve currency another unforced error. Where in the hell is Congress? Talk about useless, a blankin' useless institution. The checkbook is a 1a or 1b named, explicit role and responsibility.
  - ai_critic 9mo ago
    > Where in the hell is Congress? Talk about useless, a blankin' useless institution. Don't worry--if it's any consolation, I don't expect they'll be around to disappoint us for much longer.
  - eli_gottlieb 9mo ago
    > Where in the hell is Congress? Waiting for next year, after the midterm elections change the parties out, to worry about the deficit when the other guy can take the blame.
  - throwaway81523 9mo ago
    > Moreover it'll ruin USD as a reserve currency another unforced error. I think that is intentional, based on some bizarre reasoning somewhere in the Project 2025 docs.
  - watwut 9mo ago
    Congress republicans are fully in agreement with Trump project and openly support it. They are not sleeping doing nothing. They are actively supporting it.
    - scrubs 9mo ago
      In near term you are mostly ie 85% right. And yet the time will come when they'll have to choose between themselves and Trump in the 2026 and 2028 elections. Meanwhile, I think a lot of Republicans simply don't know how to handle this and by inertia do nothing out of cowardice. Now this situation is complicated. Take the border. The dems (plus cnn, ms-now) cannot bring themselves to say: illegal immigrants must be deported, and those adjudicated in court ordered to leave but didn't must be deported. That kind of stupidy doesn't help force Republicans to get a backbone as it may keep the voting public somewhat on trump side, which happened on 2024. At the same time ICE's execution is so piss-poor including ignoring habius corps, ignoring court orders, snd killing US citizens Republicans without backbone cannot delay their reckoning overly long. Indeed republican congressman are uniquely positioned to effect law+funding to deport lawfully, to require operational control at the border, and to mark off limits those that are here legally and do something about the multi-year backlog in cases. And importantly hold the executive branch in check.
  - e40 9mo ago
    Congress? The majority of them are now beholden to the oligarchs and will do their bidding. We are truly fucked.
imtringued 9mo ago
I just can't. Watching from Europe, what's happening in the US is what is jokingly referred as "clown world" on the internet, except this time there are real clowns everywhere. Like, how did it end up like this? You have Trump as president who campaigned on reducing the US trade deficit and government deficit. It turns out there is a lot of fraud and to such an extent that it essentially makes the anti-immigrant sentiment look justified. The US left cares about optics in a seemingly backwards way. They think exposing the fraud will justify racism and discrimination, so they deny that there ever was any fraud to begin with. This tacit approval makes them look like co-conspirators, which has worse optics than the bad optics they desperately were trying to get away from. And yet despite these "heroic" attempts at cutting government spending and the mass scale fraud suddenly falling into the lap of republicans so that they can crack down on it, Trump has contributed absolutely nothing towards reducing the deficit. Instead, the deficit is growing so quickly Trump will be overtaking Biden when it comes to driving the country into debt.
- ZeroGravitas 9mo ago
  I was confused by your mention of "clown world" as I'm more familiar with it being used by far right people who support Trump to undermine basic government competence and encourage anti-democratic nihilism. Your whole middle section reinforced that, as it sounds like the kind of things that Trump voters believe. So there's your answer, people who consume similar information sources as yourself voted themselves into danger and poverty by electing an angry bullshitter. Maybe there's a lesson there.
  - defrost 9mo ago
    They may well be using the term much as it has been used in Australia to refer to the visible public actions of the Trump Administration as a clown show. By which we refer to the frequent mentions of Finland instead of Greenland, the Mixed and ALL CAPS rants on twitter, contradiction riddled statements, waffling, 10 years of Trump sounding very much like a drunken brother in law, etc. We do concede it may well be part of some deeper multi dimensional chess strategy to confound, confuse, unbalance and grift and applaud such genius... but it does veer toward what one expects from a gerontocracy.
burnt-resistor 9mo ago
The threat of The Donald attacking Greenland has not yet passed. If it happens, the economic fallout will be massive.. like 20-25% of GDP erased. The activation of the 11th Airborne, as Malcom Nance indicated, is far too specialized for offensive Arctic warfare rather than domestic crowd control. The activation may well be a negotiation bluff, but this new "concept of a framework" may also be a geopolitical feint to cover military operations. Such a military incursion itself would likely fail worse than The Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, and Afghanistan combined. "Why is this?" you ask? Because Greenlanders are well-armed and practiced with tens of thousands of what are effectively sniper rifles. Facebook Marketplace has listed suppressed rifles with optics for the equivalent of $700 USD. The weather is extremely bad, there aren't many useable runways or deep water ports near Nuuk, there are no highways, and NATO already sent more reinforcements. And the US military has exactly one icebreaker. Doing so would ruin NATO, the US economy, and US relations with almost every country.
luke5441 9mo ago
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-debt/ https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/natio... tells me it is 124% of GDP, not 100%. This will be inflated away. The FED is already not trying to hit the 2% target. Unfortunately the treasury is issuing mostly treasury bills, so debt servicing will just become more expensive triggering a spiral. This will trigger e.g. capital controls.
wturner 9mo ago
When fear mongering around the national debt occurs I feel inclined to encourage people to research modern monetary theory. I am not an economist but it's obvious that many cultural assumptions around how money works are either intentionally wrong or the residue of outdated thinking.
- bigbadfeline 9mo ago
  > I feel inclined to encourage people to research modern monetary theory. What is there to research about banana republic finance which is the proper name of "modern" monetary theory? > many cultural assumptions around how money works Cultural assumptions don't really matter here, what matters is what theory the Fed is using. Which begs the question why are there so many conflicting theories floating around in academia? > intentionally wrong or the residue of outdated thinking. That's a good description of modern monetary theory.

30 points by testing22321 9mo ago

Reminder that Trump’s One Big Beautiful Bill is going to add, at minimum, 4 trillion in new debt. That’s per the CBO. And if he gets the additional funding increases he is seeking this year, he will add another 5 trillion over the next ten years. That’s 9 trillion before half his term is up. That money will go to the Trump family, their friends, friendly businesses who get government contracts, etc. But the cost will fall on all Americans. In the end I don’t see a way out without hyperinflation, which is another way of saying - we will be poor to prop up oligarchs who have hoarded billions in dishonest ways. But the administration is asking us to ignore what our eyes see and instead worry about some insignificant fraud that some Somalians allegedly perpetrated, even though it is tiny by comparison.

scrubs 9mo ago
Moreover it'll ruin USD as a reserve currency another unforced error. Where in the hell is Congress? Talk about useless, a blankin' useless institution. The checkbook is a 1a or 1b named, explicit role and responsibility.
- ai_critic 9mo ago
  > Where in the hell is Congress? Talk about useless, a blankin' useless institution. Don't worry--if it's any consolation, I don't expect they'll be around to disappoint us for much longer.
- eli_gottlieb 9mo ago
  > Where in the hell is Congress? Waiting for next year, after the midterm elections change the parties out, to worry about the deficit when the other guy can take the blame.
- throwaway81523 9mo ago
  > Moreover it'll ruin USD as a reserve currency another unforced error. I think that is intentional, based on some bizarre reasoning somewhere in the Project 2025 docs.
- watwut 9mo ago
  Congress republicans are fully in agreement with Trump project and openly support it. They are not sleeping doing nothing. They are actively supporting it.
  - scrubs 9mo ago
    In near term you are mostly ie 85% right. And yet the time will come when they'll have to choose between themselves and Trump in the 2026 and 2028 elections. Meanwhile, I think a lot of Republicans simply don't know how to handle this and by inertia do nothing out of cowardice. Now this situation is complicated. Take the border. The dems (plus cnn, ms-now) cannot bring themselves to say: illegal immigrants must be deported, and those adjudicated in court ordered to leave but didn't must be deported. That kind of stupidy doesn't help force Republicans to get a backbone as it may keep the voting public somewhat on trump side, which happened on 2024. At the same time ICE's execution is so piss-poor including ignoring habius corps, ignoring court orders, snd killing US citizens Republicans without backbone cannot delay their reckoning overly long. Indeed republican congressman are uniquely positioned to effect law+funding to deport lawfully, to require operational control at the border, and to mark off limits those that are here legally and do something about the multi-year backlog in cases. And importantly hold the executive branch in check.
- e40 9mo ago
  Congress? The majority of them are now beholden to the oligarchs and will do their bidding. We are truly fucked.

imtringued 9mo ago

I just can't. Watching from Europe, what's happening in the US is what is jokingly referred as "clown world" on the internet, except this time there are real clowns everywhere. Like, how did it end up like this? You have Trump as president who campaigned on reducing the US trade deficit and government deficit. It turns out there is a lot of fraud and to such an extent that it essentially makes the anti-immigrant sentiment look justified. The US left cares about optics in a seemingly backwards way. They think exposing the fraud will justify racism and discrimination, so they deny that there ever was any fraud to begin with. This tacit approval makes them look like co-conspirators, which has worse optics than the bad optics they desperately were trying to get away from. And yet despite these "heroic" attempts at cutting government spending and the mass scale fraud suddenly falling into the lap of republicans so that they can crack down on it, Trump has contributed absolutely nothing towards reducing the deficit. Instead, the deficit is growing so quickly Trump will be overtaking Biden when it comes to driving the country into debt.

ZeroGravitas 9mo ago
I was confused by your mention of "clown world" as I'm more familiar with it being used by far right people who support Trump to undermine basic government competence and encourage anti-democratic nihilism. Your whole middle section reinforced that, as it sounds like the kind of things that Trump voters believe. So there's your answer, people who consume similar information sources as yourself voted themselves into danger and poverty by electing an angry bullshitter. Maybe there's a lesson there.
- defrost 9mo ago
  They may well be using the term much as it has been used in Australia to refer to the visible public actions of the Trump Administration as a clown show. By which we refer to the frequent mentions of Finland instead of Greenland, the Mixed and ALL CAPS rants on twitter, contradiction riddled statements, waffling, 10 years of Trump sounding very much like a drunken brother in law, etc. We do concede it may well be part of some deeper multi dimensional chess strategy to confound, confuse, unbalance and grift and applaud such genius... but it does veer toward what one expects from a gerontocracy.

burnt-resistor 9mo ago

The threat of The Donald attacking Greenland has not yet passed. If it happens, the economic fallout will be massive.. like 20-25% of GDP erased. The activation of the 11th Airborne, as Malcom Nance indicated, is far too specialized for offensive Arctic warfare rather than domestic crowd control. The activation may well be a negotiation bluff, but this new "concept of a framework" may also be a geopolitical feint to cover military operations. Such a military incursion itself would likely fail worse than The Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, and Afghanistan combined. "Why is this?" you ask? Because Greenlanders are well-armed and practiced with tens of thousands of what are effectively sniper rifles. Facebook Marketplace has listed suppressed rifles with optics for the equivalent of $700 USD. The weather is extremely bad, there aren't many useable runways or deep water ports near Nuuk, there are no highways, and NATO already sent more reinforcements. And the US military has exactly one icebreaker. Doing so would ruin NATO, the US economy, and US relations with almost every country.

luke5441 9mo ago

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-debt/ https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/natio... tells me it is 124% of GDP, not 100%. This will be inflated away. The FED is already not trying to hit the 2% target. Unfortunately the treasury is issuing mostly treasury bills, so debt servicing will just become more expensive triggering a spiral. This will trigger e.g. capital controls.

wturner 9mo ago

When fear mongering around the national debt occurs I feel inclined to encourage people to research modern monetary theory. I am not an economist but it's obvious that many cultural assumptions around how money works are either intentionally wrong or the residue of outdated thinking.

bigbadfeline 9mo ago
> I feel inclined to encourage people to research modern monetary theory. What is there to research about banana republic finance which is the proper name of "modern" monetary theory? > many cultural assumptions around how money works Cultural assumptions don't really matter here, what matters is what theory the Fed is using. Which begs the question why are there so many conflicting theories floating around in academia? > intentionally wrong or the residue of outdated thinking. That's a good description of modern monetary theory.