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It is fascinating that players would actually reject the game if it showed the true straight roads and planned layouts. We have a mental model of the Middle Age

It is fascinating that players would actually reject the game if it showed the true straight roads and planned layouts. We have a mental model of the Middle Ages that is wrong but we still demand that products match our expectations. The truth feels like a glitch because it breaks our immersion. We care more about the feeling of the past than the data. Also, it is logical that we optimize the past to make the gameplay loop satisfying. Real history was full of system failures like floods and unfair taxes that prevented any real progress. We code these simulations to give players a sense of progression that the actual people never had.

nine_k 9mo ago
Players also find it fun and satisfying when an FPS player can carry five large weapons, with 100 pounds of ammo for it, run while carrying all that 20 mph in any direction without getting tired, pick anything from the floor without slowing down or ceasing fire, etc. A realistic shooter would be much harder, and having to limp slowly after taking a stray bullet in the leg would suck. And people play for fun, not for feeling the misery of war. Or, in that case, of the slow and restricted early medieval life.
- dfajgljsldkjag 9mo ago
  People certainly also play milsim like arma, but that's definitely a minority. Meanwhile in Minecraft I'm carrying around 2000 cubic metres of gold in my pockets.
  - lloeki 9mo ago
    You don't have to go to milsim to not be able to carry an entire armoury of RPG-actually-full-blown-missile-launcher, grenade launcher, assault rifle, sniper rifle, DMR, submachine gun, multiple sidearms, plus various other alien weaponry, each complete with enough ammunition to fill an 18-wheeler trailer if desired to be stored with any sort of safety. It was fine when I was playing Doom ][ but that's something that started bothering the hell out of me back when Half-Life came out with its believable sci-fi setting, as it kept breaking my suspension of disbelief. "Can carry only two, maybe three tops with sidearm" seems to be the rule these days.
    - Ekaros 9mo ago
      I think change was more so move from keyboard to also supporting controllers. Keyboards easily have 9 weapons on number keys and in some cases like quake nail gun even more on same key. Controllers just do not support this as easily. Thus move to things like wheels and other input methods.
    - pepperball 9mo ago
      [dead]
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 9mo ago
      From a fun perspective, this is unfortunate, because there is usually one or two weapons that are general purpose enough they should always be carried. The rest have some sort of gimmick that makes them useful only in certain circumstances (tank approaching, sniper area) or are just wacky (shrink ray, freeze ray, net gun). With the tiny weapon limit, the esoteric guns never get any playtime. Larger arsenal also encourages some kind of rock-paper-scissors resistance mechanism where critters take double damage against foos, but resistance to baz.
- protocolture 9mo ago
  some of the Rainbow 6 games, and Arma, tend to enforce carry limits much more harshly. OG Operation Flashpoint I remember being unable to stand from prone if my leg was shot. Which made it fun if I had just succeeded at something and needed to complete a mission otherwise having to replay it 100 times to get that far without the leg injury, so I would just slowly crawl 3 kilometers in the dark.
- AngryData 9mo ago
  Those kind of shooters do exist though, Arma being the prime example. Players often joke that it is a walking simulator despite being somewhat constrained in favor of a fun game over 100% realism. But you can easily spend 30 minutes hiking to the next objective just for a chance to take a shot at somebody or get shot in an ambush. It isn't conducive towards a quick 15 minute game, but it is very much a different style of game with people sneaking and hiding and being bastards peaking out through leaves in the bushes 1000m away to shoot you, versus a traditional FPS where you can shoot and battle people like a coked up machinegun toting gorilla multiple times within just a few minutes.
  - pepperball 9mo ago
    [dead]
  - nine_k 9mo ago
    Yes. I still love the difficulty level menu from the original Deus Ex: Easy, Medium, Hard, and Realistic. (Weight and bulk were actual considerations there, and you could limp, or even have to crawl, if your legs were wounded.)
- JamesTRexx 9mo ago
  I'm all for more realism in an FPS game, but then the realism also has to apply to the NPCs, who have unlimited ammo, can see through walls or worse, shoot through them, who have no fear and thus not hide or not long enough, don't sneak around, don't have imperfect control over their actions. I don't have a perfect game setup and am constantly hampered by needing to do two different things like locomotion and handling with only my left hand, thus using cheats is standard for me to compensate for the imbalance. Also, sometimes I just want to enjoy a walk through the environment without constant fighting (Far Cry 2, 5).
- red-iron-pine 9mo ago
  Americas Army attempted to be a realistic FPS as a recruiting tool. Boring as hell and didn't have that click-click-get-dopamine vibe of Call of Duty, etc.
- prmoustache 9mo ago
  Skyrim has a "realistic mode" where carrying too much makes you slower.
- pibaker 9mo ago
  Not disagreeing with your point but: I have never seen any call of duty player who actually thinks you can actually carry twenty magazines worth of bullets or recover from a dozen gunshots by cowering behind a car. I have however seen many overconfident strategy and simulation game players talk as if playing civilization gives them a license to be confidently wrong about real world history and geopolitics.
dfxm12 9mo ago
Yeah, I think when making a game, in general, fun is the first thing to consider. All these games are lumped into the article as "city builders", but Age of Empires and Sim City are completely different genres, just as one example. I expect an RTS game like Age of Empires to be balanced for competitiveness rather than realism. Sim City 2000 at least markets itself as a simulation game, which I'd expect to be more realistic in terms of city building. For better or worse, though, the simulation seems rather simplistic, which could lead to unrealistic city designs or confusion around why the Sims don't want to drive over the fancy highway bridge I just spent $5000 on...
ErigmolCt 9mo ago
That "truth feels like a glitch" line really nails it. It's striking how quickly historical accuracy becomes uncanny when it clashes with our internalized image of the past

nine_k 9mo ago

Players also find it fun and satisfying when an FPS player can carry five large weapons, with 100 pounds of ammo for it, run while carrying all that 20 mph in any direction without getting tired, pick anything from the floor without slowing down or ceasing fire, etc. A realistic shooter would be much harder, and having to limp slowly after taking a stray bullet in the leg would suck. And people play for fun, not for feeling the misery of war. Or, in that case, of the slow and restricted early medieval life.

dfajgljsldkjag 9mo ago
People certainly also play milsim like arma, but that's definitely a minority. Meanwhile in Minecraft I'm carrying around 2000 cubic metres of gold in my pockets.
- lloeki 9mo ago
  You don't have to go to milsim to not be able to carry an entire armoury of RPG-actually-full-blown-missile-launcher, grenade launcher, assault rifle, sniper rifle, DMR, submachine gun, multiple sidearms, plus various other alien weaponry, each complete with enough ammunition to fill an 18-wheeler trailer if desired to be stored with any sort of safety. It was fine when I was playing Doom ][ but that's something that started bothering the hell out of me back when Half-Life came out with its believable sci-fi setting, as it kept breaking my suspension of disbelief. "Can carry only two, maybe three tops with sidearm" seems to be the rule these days.
  - Ekaros 9mo ago
    I think change was more so move from keyboard to also supporting controllers. Keyboards easily have 9 weapons on number keys and in some cases like quake nail gun even more on same key. Controllers just do not support this as easily. Thus move to things like wheels and other input methods.
  - pepperball 9mo ago
    [dead]
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 9mo ago
    From a fun perspective, this is unfortunate, because there is usually one or two weapons that are general purpose enough they should always be carried. The rest have some sort of gimmick that makes them useful only in certain circumstances (tank approaching, sniper area) or are just wacky (shrink ray, freeze ray, net gun). With the tiny weapon limit, the esoteric guns never get any playtime. Larger arsenal also encourages some kind of rock-paper-scissors resistance mechanism where critters take double damage against foos, but resistance to baz.
protocolture 9mo ago
some of the Rainbow 6 games, and Arma, tend to enforce carry limits much more harshly. OG Operation Flashpoint I remember being unable to stand from prone if my leg was shot. Which made it fun if I had just succeeded at something and needed to complete a mission otherwise having to replay it 100 times to get that far without the leg injury, so I would just slowly crawl 3 kilometers in the dark.
AngryData 9mo ago
Those kind of shooters do exist though, Arma being the prime example. Players often joke that it is a walking simulator despite being somewhat constrained in favor of a fun game over 100% realism. But you can easily spend 30 minutes hiking to the next objective just for a chance to take a shot at somebody or get shot in an ambush. It isn't conducive towards a quick 15 minute game, but it is very much a different style of game with people sneaking and hiding and being bastards peaking out through leaves in the bushes 1000m away to shoot you, versus a traditional FPS where you can shoot and battle people like a coked up machinegun toting gorilla multiple times within just a few minutes.
- pepperball 9mo ago
  [dead]
- nine_k 9mo ago
  Yes. I still love the difficulty level menu from the original Deus Ex: Easy, Medium, Hard, and Realistic. (Weight and bulk were actual considerations there, and you could limp, or even have to crawl, if your legs were wounded.)
JamesTRexx 9mo ago
I'm all for more realism in an FPS game, but then the realism also has to apply to the NPCs, who have unlimited ammo, can see through walls or worse, shoot through them, who have no fear and thus not hide or not long enough, don't sneak around, don't have imperfect control over their actions. I don't have a perfect game setup and am constantly hampered by needing to do two different things like locomotion and handling with only my left hand, thus using cheats is standard for me to compensate for the imbalance. Also, sometimes I just want to enjoy a walk through the environment without constant fighting (Far Cry 2, 5).
red-iron-pine 9mo ago
Americas Army attempted to be a realistic FPS as a recruiting tool. Boring as hell and didn't have that click-click-get-dopamine vibe of Call of Duty, etc.
prmoustache 9mo ago
Skyrim has a "realistic mode" where carrying too much makes you slower.
pibaker 9mo ago
Not disagreeing with your point but: I have never seen any call of duty player who actually thinks you can actually carry twenty magazines worth of bullets or recover from a dozen gunshots by cowering behind a car. I have however seen many overconfident strategy and simulation game players talk as if playing civilization gives them a license to be confidently wrong about real world history and geopolitics.

dfxm12 9mo ago

Yeah, I think when making a game, in general, fun is the first thing to consider. All these games are lumped into the article as "city builders", but Age of Empires and Sim City are completely different genres, just as one example. I expect an RTS game like Age of Empires to be balanced for competitiveness rather than realism. Sim City 2000 at least markets itself as a simulation game, which I'd expect to be more realistic in terms of city building. For better or worse, though, the simulation seems rather simplistic, which could lead to unrealistic city designs or confusion around why the Sims don't want to drive over the fancy highway bridge I just spent $5000 on...

ErigmolCt 9mo ago

That "truth feels like a glitch" line really nails it. It's striking how quickly historical accuracy becomes uncanny when it clashes with our internalized image of the past