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>it'll be friendlier for the average person than Linux itself. I think the myth that Windows is easier needs to die. The builds targeted at Windows users are v

by boznz 9mo ago

>it'll be friendlier for the average person than Linux itself. I think the myth that Windows is easier needs to die. The builds targeted at Windows users are very easy to use; You would likely go into the Command Prompt as much as you would with Windows, and the "average person" spends more time on their non-windows phone than they do in Windows. I am a 30+ years Windows developer, who thought he would never move, but who migrated literally a week ago, the migration was surprisingly painless and the new system feels much more friendly, and surprisingly, more stable. I wrote it up on my blog, and was going to follow it up with another post about all the annoyances in my first full week, but they were so petty I didn't bother.

johnisgood 9mo ago
I agree. One can just install Linux Mint or Fedora or anything and then Linux is just as friendly to use. You got a desktop, you can use your mouse to start up the browser, install applications with a mouse click, and so forth. You could do without opening up the terminal. Functionally the same as using Windows.
- pjmlp 9mo ago
  I would like to see many non technical people doing that, and then their experience trying to watch Netflix, Prime, HBO, YouTube,... Linux experience is ok, when one knows UNIX and is technically skilled.
  - maybewhenthesun 9mo ago
    My parents, and my wife's parents, have been doing just that without any trouble whatsoever. Just browse to netflix.com and log in. Not any different than in windows. My parents use mail, firefox and libreoffice writer. That's about all they need and it works fine and is way more stable and hasslefree on linux than when it was when they were still using windows (admittedly quite long ago). And if you are talking about seeing people install the OS, people can't do that for windows either.
    - johnisgood 9mo ago
      Pretty much my experience too. Not just with my parents but with many other adults too.
maybewhenthesun 9mo ago
You are still in the honeymoon phase. I see a lot of those blogpost in the last months. In a few weeks you will bump into something that isn't simple and friendly and you will curse that stupid linux. Something that trivially works in windows and is impossible or insanely hard in linux. That is often the time people go back. Old habits die hard. But still you are 100% right. Windows is not easier. I know because I went from dos to linux and only occasionally dabbled in windows. And I have exactly the same sort of trouble as soon as I try to do something non trivial in windows. Including bumping into stuff that should be trivial but suddenly is impossible or insanely hard. For years I have seen people say that windows is easier, while actually windows is just more familiar. My (completely non computer savvy) parents and in-laws are on ubuntu/mint since 2009 and it was the best decision ever to switch them over. And they don't understand why people say linux is hard either (though my father in law still calls it 'Ubantu Linox' for some reason :-P ) At the start I had a small doubt if I should push them to macOS (OSX at the time) as then apple's fanatical dedication to userfriendlyness paid off. But I decided against it because I didn't feel like paying apple prices for my own hardware and it seemed ill advised to manage their systems while not using it myself. I'm very glad about that because apple has gone downhill immensely since ~2009 (imo)
pjmlp 9mo ago
It certainly is, because I still don't see GNU/Linux desktops on sale, other than the short lived netbooks movement. So normal people have stores with other people that they can talk to when they have problems, or just drag their computer into the store. With Linux it is always the relative that happens to be around, or drive in on purpose, and had to manually install the <insert favourite distro> of the day.
- lproven 9mo ago
  > I still don't see GNU/Linux desktops on sale Oh come on. Play fair. You are perhaps the single HN commentator whose input I most respect, because so many of your opinions overlap my own... But that is not fair or right. GNU/Linux desktops (and laptops) on sale: https://itsfoss.com/get-linux-laptops/ https://itsfoss.com/get-linux-laptops/ Fairly prominent Linux-only hardware vendors doing R&D: https://system76.com/ https://system76.com/ https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en A pure Linux-only consumer PC on mainstream sale: https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck A compatible 3rd party machine of the same design: https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/p/handheld/legion-go-series/legion-go-s-powered-by-steamos/len106g0003 https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/p/handheld/legion-go-series/leg... And of course retail GNU/Linux machines that cost 1/4 of a cheap Apple Mac and yet have outsold them by revenue not number of units for nearly a decade now: https://www.google.com/chromebook/shop-chromebooks/ https://www.google.com/chromebook/shop-chromebooks/ Yes this is absolutely happening. This is a real international market with sales in the hundreds of millions of units. This is not some tiny obscure niche that can be skipped over.
  - pjmlp 9mo ago
    You are so eager to reply that you haven't even read the whole comment. > So normal people have stores with other people that they can talk to when they have problems, or just drag their computer into the store. Which of those online stores have a physical address for the normal people to do as per my comment? Linux forums have enough complaints about those fairly prominent Linux-only vendors, even though they are suppose to control the whole stack. And they also fall into each having their own <favourite distro>, the other part of the comment that you missed as well. Normal people aren't using SteamDecks for their daily computing activities. I use Linux in various forms since 1995, and yet I am tired from trying out such alternatives, the only things that makes me consider it again is breaking the dependency on US tech, and even that isn't really happening, given how much from Linux contributions are on the pockets from US Big Tech.
lproven 9mo ago
> I wrote it up on my blog, and was going to follow it up with another post about all the annoyances in my first full week, but they were so petty I didn't bother. May we have a link, please?
- boznz 9mo ago
  Just Finished => https://rodyne.com/?p=3524 https://rodyne.com/?p=3524 - I guess I'm still in the honeymoon phase, as another poster so eloquently put it.

by boznz 9mo ago

johnisgood 9mo ago

I agree. One can just install Linux Mint or Fedora or anything and then Linux is just as friendly to use. You got a desktop, you can use your mouse to start up the browser, install applications with a mouse click, and so forth. You could do without opening up the terminal. Functionally the same as using Windows.

pjmlp 9mo ago
I would like to see many non technical people doing that, and then their experience trying to watch Netflix, Prime, HBO, YouTube,... Linux experience is ok, when one knows UNIX and is technically skilled.
- maybewhenthesun 9mo ago
  My parents, and my wife's parents, have been doing just that without any trouble whatsoever. Just browse to netflix.com and log in. Not any different than in windows. My parents use mail, firefox and libreoffice writer. That's about all they need and it works fine and is way more stable and hasslefree on linux than when it was when they were still using windows (admittedly quite long ago). And if you are talking about seeing people install the OS, people can't do that for windows either.
  - johnisgood 9mo ago
    Pretty much my experience too. Not just with my parents but with many other adults too.

maybewhenthesun 9mo ago

You are still in the honeymoon phase. I see a lot of those blogpost in the last months. In a few weeks you will bump into something that isn't simple and friendly and you will curse that stupid linux. Something that trivially works in windows and is impossible or insanely hard in linux. That is often the time people go back. Old habits die hard. But still you are 100% right. Windows is not easier. I know because I went from dos to linux and only occasionally dabbled in windows. And I have exactly the same sort of trouble as soon as I try to do something non trivial in windows. Including bumping into stuff that should be trivial but suddenly is impossible or insanely hard. For years I have seen people say that windows is easier, while actually windows is just more familiar. My (completely non computer savvy) parents and in-laws are on ubuntu/mint since 2009 and it was the best decision ever to switch them over. And they don't understand why people say linux is hard either (though my father in law still calls it 'Ubantu Linox' for some reason :-P ) At the start I had a small doubt if I should push them to macOS (OSX at the time) as then apple's fanatical dedication to userfriendlyness paid off. But I decided against it because I didn't feel like paying apple prices for my own hardware and it seemed ill advised to manage their systems while not using it myself. I'm very glad about that because apple has gone downhill immensely since ~2009 (imo)

pjmlp 9mo ago

It certainly is, because I still don't see GNU/Linux desktops on sale, other than the short lived netbooks movement. So normal people have stores with other people that they can talk to when they have problems, or just drag their computer into the store. With Linux it is always the relative that happens to be around, or drive in on purpose, and had to manually install the <insert favourite distro> of the day.

lproven 9mo ago
> I still don't see GNU/Linux desktops on sale Oh come on. Play fair. You are perhaps the single HN commentator whose input I most respect, because so many of your opinions overlap my own... But that is not fair or right. GNU/Linux desktops (and laptops) on sale: https://itsfoss.com/get-linux-laptops/ https://itsfoss.com/get-linux-laptops/ Fairly prominent Linux-only hardware vendors doing R&D: https://system76.com/ https://system76.com/ https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en A pure Linux-only consumer PC on mainstream sale: https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck A compatible 3rd party machine of the same design: https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/p/handheld/legion-go-series/legion-go-s-powered-by-steamos/len106g0003 https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/p/handheld/legion-go-series/leg... And of course retail GNU/Linux machines that cost 1/4 of a cheap Apple Mac and yet have outsold them by revenue not number of units for nearly a decade now: https://www.google.com/chromebook/shop-chromebooks/ https://www.google.com/chromebook/shop-chromebooks/ Yes this is absolutely happening. This is a real international market with sales in the hundreds of millions of units. This is not some tiny obscure niche that can be skipped over.
- pjmlp 9mo ago
  You are so eager to reply that you haven't even read the whole comment. > So normal people have stores with other people that they can talk to when they have problems, or just drag their computer into the store. Which of those online stores have a physical address for the normal people to do as per my comment? Linux forums have enough complaints about those fairly prominent Linux-only vendors, even though they are suppose to control the whole stack. And they also fall into each having their own <favourite distro>, the other part of the comment that you missed as well. Normal people aren't using SteamDecks for their daily computing activities. I use Linux in various forms since 1995, and yet I am tired from trying out such alternatives, the only things that makes me consider it again is breaking the dependency on US tech, and even that isn't really happening, given how much from Linux contributions are on the pockets from US Big Tech.

lproven 9mo ago

> I wrote it up on my blog, and was going to follow it up with another post about all the annoyances in my first full week, but they were so petty I didn't bother. May we have a link, please?

boznz 9mo ago
Just Finished => https://rodyne.com/?p=3524 https://rodyne.com/?p=3524 - I guess I'm still in the honeymoon phase, as another poster so eloquently put it.