28 ms·

The EU can’t even get a Mercosur deal closed after 30 years. I think this will probably happen in another 60 years.

by tchalla 9mo ago

f1shy 9mo ago
What makes it more ridiculous, is that fact that we from the EU are shouting US is getting isolated, but some of the biggest economies in the world do not want to trade with 4 countries from the 3rd world, because we think will get bankrupt because of that.
- paganel 9mo ago
  It's because of agriculture and us here in Europe losing our food-related resilience because of that. The tertiary sector won't save you in case of a continental blockade and the Argentinian/Brazilian grain suddenly becoming unavailable. "We'll go back to our farmers here in Europe!" Oops, you've just pushed them into bankruptcy a few years ago as a result of Mercosur, so good luck with that.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    What happens to bankrupt farms? Are they converted into national forests?
    - paganel 9mo ago
      Probably real estate. You also lose the tools, and the people, and the know-how.
      - f1shy 9mo ago
        Well that doesn’t seem to matter in another areas of the economy… meanwhile in Germany we are experiencing an historical de-industrialization. I don’t see nearly as much fuss about that.
        machomaster 9mo ago
        Severely downsizing or shutting down the military production, how has it been working to get it running again so far? And now imagine if Germany wouldn't have the luxury of hiding behind the Ukrainian/American/Polish/Finnish backs and would have to actually fight the war at the same time. Well, returning the food production while the population is starving would have been an even harder problem.
  - f1shy 9mo ago
    The amount of erosion and heavy use of fertilizer doesn’t seem so good in the long run.
    - paganel 9mo ago
      Are you talking about Argentina or France?
      - f1shy 9mo ago
        Wait... did I change thread or what... wasn't the discussion about EU / Mercosur? Why do you pick these 2 countries?
- unglaublich 9mo ago
  *We = farmers, their lobby, and their simps.
- forty 9mo ago
  I'm sure everyone would be happy to purchase stuff that respect our own standards. We forbid our farmers to use some chemicals because they are bad for health and nature, it would be completely stupid to start purchasing food abroad that is made using those chemicals, don't you agree?
  - f1shy 9mo ago
    Sorry, the standards imposed to meat from south america is way higher than the European. Wine is nearly impossible. And spicies like paprika also require higher standards than in Europe. I don’t know what you mean with that. Free trade does not mean there are no standards to met. Same standards will be imposed (as are already imposed) to anything imported in the EU. Also in south America, because of size you don’t need nearly as much chemicals as in EU anyway. Last but not least, that of quality standards and chemicals doesn’t hold anyway, as there are already loads of products coming from those countries already… I look always where things come from, and fruits come up to 80% from South America (including Mercosur). Dang even apples from Argentina in Germany, which is frankly non sense to me! It’s just not about quality, is good all protectionism and imposing tariffs, just as Trump is doing, but if we do, is ok. Yes, I agree with the standards, but has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with the agreement Mercosur/EU. The standard will be imposed for ANY product sold in the EU, doesn't matter where it comes from, as it should be.
    - forty 9mo ago
      Do you have sources for what you say for meat for example? From what I could read on this topic, they don't have the same traceability constraints, may use growth hormones that are forbidden here, etc. To add to the absurdity, one of the thing we Europeans will be able to export more to SA is chemicals, including those which we forbid here because they damage health and environment...
      - f1shy 9mo ago
        Ask the owners of this shop: https://www.mate-tee.de/en/ https://www.mate-tee.de/en/ Or people exporting meat I happen to know. Independent of all requirements for anything in the EU, that of course has to be met, they will ask for lots of things above and beyond. That is the reality of the market. If you want to play with such a big market, it won’t be easy. I know a guy who had paprika plantation, wanted to sell to Germany. They asked conserved samples of the last 20 years to guarantee consistency. That is just not normal.
- alephnerd 9mo ago
  > but some of the biggest economies in the world do not want to trade with 4 countries from the 3rd world, It's this attitude that makes non-Europeans (especially those of us without European heritage) less sympathetic to European pleas of support, yet it's your politicians that try to sign a defense pacts with "third world countries" like India [0] [0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/india/eu-proceed-security-defence-partnership-with-india-kallas-says-2026-01-21/ https://www.reuters.com/world/india/eu-proceed-security-defe...
  - machomaster 9mo ago
    You should understand what the term "third-world" means. It is not the synonym for a "developing country", let alone "shithole country".
    - alephnerd 9mo ago
      You and I both know in what context they used that statement. Enjoy getting offshored.
      - machomaster 9mo ago
        Offence is taken, not given. I think it's an overreaction trying to find something to get offended about, instead of seeing the essence of what the parent was trying to clumsily say.
victorbjorklund 9mo ago
I thought Americans today are pro-tariffs and against free trade? US is still unable to get a free trade deal with mercosur.
- alephnerd 9mo ago
  OP isn't American. It's hard to overstate how much a beating the EU's reputation took after the Mercosur fiasco. Lula took a massive political risk to push the EU-Mercosur FTA despite the power behind the throne in Brazil being wooed/bribed by the Trump admin [0] and already on the fence about the EU-Mercosur FTA because they are Ag Barons that primarily trade with the US and China [1] AND during a hotly contested election year. This only makes the EU look like a less attractive negotiating partner, and incentivizes countries to unilaterally negotiate with individual EU states instead of the EU as a whole, thus undermining the entire EU. If the EU alienates China, the US, Russia, Brazil, India, ASEAN, Japan, Korea, etc who else is left? That is the whole crux of Carney and Zelenskyy's speeches at Davos. > US is still unable to get a free trade deal with mercosur Instead, we get an REE extraction deal in Brazil [2], financial backing for our current Venezuela escapade [0], and a president exporting Hispanic American-style far right politics into EU member states like Spain [3] and Italy [4] where right-leaning South Americans have become a major political voting bloc. The more isolated the EU becomes, the easier it is for countries to begin taking advantage of European nations on their terms. Edit: The EU is now unfreezing and ratifying the US-EU trade deal [5] [0] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-18/brazil-s-billionaire-batistas-poised-for-venezuelan-oil-revival https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-18/brazil-s-... [1] - https://www.ft.com/content/d293237e-e39f-4f4c-89e7-4c52cf937f6b https://www.ft.com/content/d293237e-e39f-4f4c-89e7-4c52cf937... [2] - https://www.ft.com/content/401a9e84-3034-4375-bf39-56b92500c7aa https://www.ft.com/content/401a9e84-3034-4375-bf39-56b92500c... [3] - https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spains-far-right-vox-holds-mass-rally-with-argentinas-milei-foreign-allies-2024-05-19/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spains-far-right-vox-ho... [4] - https://cebri.org/revista/en/artigo/172/javier-milei-and-the-global-far-right-reshaping-argentinas-foreign-policy https://cebri.org/revista/en/artigo/172/javier-milei-and-the... [5] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-22/eu-plans-to-unfreeze-trade-deal-with-us-and-vote-on-ratification https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-22/eu-plans-...

The EU can’t even get a Mercosur deal closed after 30 years. I think this will probably happen in another 60 years.

by tchalla 9mo ago

The EU can’t even get a Mercosur deal closed after 30 years. I think this will probably happen in another 60 years.

f1shy 9mo ago

What makes it more ridiculous, is that fact that we from the EU are shouting US is getting isolated, but some of the biggest economies in the world do not want to trade with 4 countries from the 3rd world, because we think will get bankrupt because of that.

paganel 9mo ago
It's because of agriculture and us here in Europe losing our food-related resilience because of that. The tertiary sector won't save you in case of a continental blockade and the Argentinian/Brazilian grain suddenly becoming unavailable. "We'll go back to our farmers here in Europe!" Oops, you've just pushed them into bankruptcy a few years ago as a result of Mercosur, so good luck with that.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  What happens to bankrupt farms? Are they converted into national forests?
  - paganel 9mo ago
    Probably real estate. You also lose the tools, and the people, and the know-how.
    - f1shy 9mo ago
      Well that doesn’t seem to matter in another areas of the economy… meanwhile in Germany we are experiencing an historical de-industrialization. I don’t see nearly as much fuss about that.
      - machomaster 9mo ago
        Severely downsizing or shutting down the military production, how has it been working to get it running again so far? And now imagine if Germany wouldn't have the luxury of hiding behind the Ukrainian/American/Polish/Finnish backs and would have to actually fight the war at the same time. Well, returning the food production while the population is starving would have been an even harder problem.
- f1shy 9mo ago
  The amount of erosion and heavy use of fertilizer doesn’t seem so good in the long run.
  - paganel 9mo ago
    Are you talking about Argentina or France?
    - f1shy 9mo ago
      Wait... did I change thread or what... wasn't the discussion about EU / Mercosur? Why do you pick these 2 countries?
unglaublich 9mo ago
*We = farmers, their lobby, and their simps.
forty 9mo ago
I'm sure everyone would be happy to purchase stuff that respect our own standards. We forbid our farmers to use some chemicals because they are bad for health and nature, it would be completely stupid to start purchasing food abroad that is made using those chemicals, don't you agree?
- f1shy 9mo ago
  Sorry, the standards imposed to meat from south america is way higher than the European. Wine is nearly impossible. And spicies like paprika also require higher standards than in Europe. I don’t know what you mean with that. Free trade does not mean there are no standards to met. Same standards will be imposed (as are already imposed) to anything imported in the EU. Also in south America, because of size you don’t need nearly as much chemicals as in EU anyway. Last but not least, that of quality standards and chemicals doesn’t hold anyway, as there are already loads of products coming from those countries already… I look always where things come from, and fruits come up to 80% from South America (including Mercosur). Dang even apples from Argentina in Germany, which is frankly non sense to me! It’s just not about quality, is good all protectionism and imposing tariffs, just as Trump is doing, but if we do, is ok. Yes, I agree with the standards, but has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with the agreement Mercosur/EU. The standard will be imposed for ANY product sold in the EU, doesn't matter where it comes from, as it should be.
  - forty 9mo ago
    Do you have sources for what you say for meat for example? From what I could read on this topic, they don't have the same traceability constraints, may use growth hormones that are forbidden here, etc. To add to the absurdity, one of the thing we Europeans will be able to export more to SA is chemicals, including those which we forbid here because they damage health and environment...
    - f1shy 9mo ago
      Ask the owners of this shop: https://www.mate-tee.de/en/ https://www.mate-tee.de/en/ Or people exporting meat I happen to know. Independent of all requirements for anything in the EU, that of course has to be met, they will ask for lots of things above and beyond. That is the reality of the market. If you want to play with such a big market, it won’t be easy. I know a guy who had paprika plantation, wanted to sell to Germany. They asked conserved samples of the last 20 years to guarantee consistency. That is just not normal.
alephnerd 9mo ago
> but some of the biggest economies in the world do not want to trade with 4 countries from the 3rd world, It's this attitude that makes non-Europeans (especially those of us without European heritage) less sympathetic to European pleas of support, yet it's your politicians that try to sign a defense pacts with "third world countries" like India [0] [0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/india/eu-proceed-security-defence-partnership-with-india-kallas-says-2026-01-21/ https://www.reuters.com/world/india/eu-proceed-security-defe...
- machomaster 9mo ago
  You should understand what the term "third-world" means. It is not the synonym for a "developing country", let alone "shithole country".
  - alephnerd 9mo ago
    You and I both know in what context they used that statement. Enjoy getting offshored.
    - machomaster 9mo ago
      Offence is taken, not given. I think it's an overreaction trying to find something to get offended about, instead of seeing the essence of what the parent was trying to clumsily say.

victorbjorklund 9mo ago

I thought Americans today are pro-tariffs and against free trade? US is still unable to get a free trade deal with mercosur.

alephnerd 9mo ago
OP isn't American. It's hard to overstate how much a beating the EU's reputation took after the Mercosur fiasco. Lula took a massive political risk to push the EU-Mercosur FTA despite the power behind the throne in Brazil being wooed/bribed by the Trump admin [0] and already on the fence about the EU-Mercosur FTA because they are Ag Barons that primarily trade with the US and China [1] AND during a hotly contested election year. This only makes the EU look like a less attractive negotiating partner, and incentivizes countries to unilaterally negotiate with individual EU states instead of the EU as a whole, thus undermining the entire EU. If the EU alienates China, the US, Russia, Brazil, India, ASEAN, Japan, Korea, etc who else is left? That is the whole crux of Carney and Zelenskyy's speeches at Davos. > US is still unable to get a free trade deal with mercosur Instead, we get an REE extraction deal in Brazil [2], financial backing for our current Venezuela escapade [0], and a president exporting Hispanic American-style far right politics into EU member states like Spain [3] and Italy [4] where right-leaning South Americans have become a major political voting bloc. The more isolated the EU becomes, the easier it is for countries to begin taking advantage of European nations on their terms. Edit: The EU is now unfreezing and ratifying the US-EU trade deal [5] [0] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-18/brazil-s-billionaire-batistas-poised-for-venezuelan-oil-revival https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-18/brazil-s-... [1] - https://www.ft.com/content/d293237e-e39f-4f4c-89e7-4c52cf937f6b https://www.ft.com/content/d293237e-e39f-4f4c-89e7-4c52cf937... [2] - https://www.ft.com/content/401a9e84-3034-4375-bf39-56b92500c7aa https://www.ft.com/content/401a9e84-3034-4375-bf39-56b92500c... [3] - https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spains-far-right-vox-holds-mass-rally-with-argentinas-milei-foreign-allies-2024-05-19/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spains-far-right-vox-ho... [4] - https://cebri.org/revista/en/artigo/172/javier-milei-and-the-global-far-right-reshaping-argentinas-foreign-policy https://cebri.org/revista/en/artigo/172/javier-milei-and-the... [5] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-22/eu-plans-to-unfreeze-trade-deal-with-us-and-vote-on-ratification https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-22/eu-plans-...