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I don't see how it's conductive to the underlying big stakes discussion if we start condemning Kagi over this omission instead of assuming good faith. It's just
by shmeeed 9mo ago
I don't see how it's conductive to the underlying big stakes discussion if we start condemning Kagi over this omission instead of assuming good faith. It's just distracting from the real issue at hand that is Google's monopoly and the details of the rulings and their enforcement.
Call me naive, but I imagine Kagi would be VERY hesitant to force ads on their users, given that such a step would risk alienating a major part of their customer base, as they're well aware.
If they were secretly planning to to it somewhere down the road, they could just as well do it the usual and proven way and lie about it until they've build a sufficient moat, which they're not having right now. IMO, they have precious little to gain from hinting at it like this now.
And even if it were the case that this omission was consciously about keeping a door open for such a change in business models, there's a whole lot of leeway in approaches that involve ads, apart from the 100% user-as-a-product way that Google went with.
Given the high customizability of their search, they e.g. could give users the option to turn ads on or off. Some people (don't ask me who, but I keep being told they exist) don't mind being shown ads or might even desire them.
I remember way back when the first Google ads were clearly labeled as such and stood visually apart from organic search results. I personally don't think it would mean the end of the world if Kagi did something similar - in a transparent way, and preferrably as an opt-in.
But at this point it's all needless speculation in my view.
- walt_grata 9mo agoI don't know dude. Every time I've assumed good faith on my paying for something means ad free, I've been screwed by some asshole with an MBA getting into a leadership position high enough to push ads through. I'd rather it be explicit
- shmeeed 9mo agoI get the point, we've all been burnt. But if you're not trusting anybody anyway, why would explicity in a non-binding blog post / press release soothe you? We're in the middle of an AI bubble propping up the whole friggin US economy all by itself, driven mostly by a company that claimed to be a non-profit until a few years ago.
- walt_grata 9mo agoBecause I've been burned by every big tech company I can think of. As for why it would be soothing, well because it gives me hope that when I read any further legal docs they'll hold to the post. What does ai have to do with this? The sooner that bubble bursts the better IMO.
- shmeeed 9mo agoThe (Open)AI example was to illustrate the fact that companies can lie about their long-term plans or just change them whenever. They routinely do. And everybody who believed yesteryear's mission statement will then wind up feeling pretty stupid. I'm considering Kagi a strategic ally in the fight against big tech right now. It isn't a big tech company (yet). They don't have much of a moat either. Therefore, for the foreseeable future, they will be absolutely dependent on aligning their behaviour with their customer's interests, lest they lose them and go out of business.
- thisislife2 9mo agoAssuming good-faith requires reciprocal actions to reinforce it from the other side too, which I don't see happening. As I have pointed out elsewhere, they've stopped offering offline installers for their browser, and I suspect a major reason for that is to also collect telemetry / user data - a clever way to get around their advertised claim of "no telemetry" browser. After being burnt many times by Google and Apple ("trust us, we care about your privacy"), others and now streaming services ("no ads if you pay us, promise"), I just can't help being cynical as another for-profit company appears to be using the same tactics ... like I said, trust is earned, not demanded.
- LoganDark 9mo agoAssuming good faith is a mistake now. Users need to be asking, demanding, proof, not just assuming anyone or anything else has their best interests in mind. I'm tired of seeing this; I'll assume good faith only once I'm not universally treated as an enemy to society. With that said, Kagi has appeared friendly so far.