4 ms·

German here. That's not true. What crazy documentation do you require? An ID, proof of residence, and a business plan? (edit: you don't even need a business pla

by Bewelge 9mo ago

German here. That's not true. What crazy documentation do you require? An ID, proof of residence, and a business plan? (edit: you don't even need a business plan) That being said, everything about the process is annoying and you always have the feeling that you're doing something wrong or forgetting something. Together with some ridiculously slow processing times, it's the perfect combination to frustrate you and I'm sure it ultimately reduces innovation. But in reality, getting all the paperwork together is probably a couple of hours of work. You can buy services that do it for you for a couple of hundred Euros.

jagrsw 9mo ago
I don't know much about corporations, but why business plans are needed at all? I mean, for EU citizens. bank (loans), immigration and investors can be interested, but their interests are not covering every corporation out there.
- embedding-shape 9mo ago
  It's basically a proof of "most basic effort" that you're serious. You could probably note down some stuff on a single A4 and get it approved, it doesn't have to be a 40 page dossier. Kind of like fizzbuzz, just something really simple and most basic to get rid of the "easy scams" and so on. Edit: So "easy scams" are probably the wrong word, I initially wrote "riffraff" because in my mothertoungue that isn't so... disparaging, but what I meant was that it's used as "bare minimum filter" basically.
  - zdragnar 9mo ago
    That doesn't really sound like a barrier to the easy scams at all. It just sounds like something someone once thought would be a good idea and now everyone has to do it because that's the process.
  - philipallstar 9mo ago
    How would this get rid of easy scams?
  - whatevaa 9mo ago
    ChatGPT, give me a convincing sounding business plans for starting a bussiness in Germany. Done.
- Xylakant 9mo ago
  There’s absolutely no need to have a business plan to start a company in Germany. You articles of incorporation and they state a company purpose, but this can be something as simple as “do IT consulting”. Obviously, having a credible plan helps if you try to convince banks to loan you money or any such thing, but the act of registering a company requires no such thing.
ExoticPearTree 9mo ago
> ... and a business plan? Why would the government need a business plan? It's none of their business what you want to do with your company besides a general description as "software development" or "consulting services" or whatever.
- Bewelge 9mo ago
  Actually I think I might be mistaken that you are even required to make a business plan. It's listed as one of the steps on the states portal about founding. But it goes on to say that it's not technically required, just highlights its importance. https://www.existenzgruendungsportal.de/Navigation/DE/So-gehts/Businessplan/businessplan https://www.existenzgruendungsportal.de/Navigation/DE/So-geh...
- logifail 9mo ago
  > It's none of their business what you want to do with your company There are plenty of European member states that want the ability to control very precisely what you do with "your company". You want to call yourself "a software engineer"? Ooops... In the EU it seems particularly the German-speaking countries are borderline obsessed with a) titles, and b) whom may use those titles. See, for instance, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34096464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34096464
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - hermanzegerman 9mo ago
    I like that you know what an Engineer is in German, and not the 1000 BS Meanings it has in the US
  - BerislavLopac 9mo ago
    > it seems particularly the German-speaking countries are borderline obsessed with a) titles There is nothing borderline about that - the German cultural space (including very much the countries of former Habsburg Empire) is still completely obsessed with titles and formal positions despite many of them losing any practical importance in modern times.
dcrazy 9mo ago
> business plan This is the problem. Let me pivot. Let me fail. Let my investors (including myself) lose time and money in bad ideas. All the bureaucracy in the world didn’t stop Wirecard, but it sure as heck demotivated people from trying something new in Germany.
- Xylakant 9mo ago
  There is no problem, because no business plan is required.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
petre 9mo ago
Previous HN discussion about setting up a GmbH. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39959368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39959368

by Bewelge 9mo ago

jagrsw 9mo ago

I don't know much about corporations, but why business plans are needed at all? I mean, for EU citizens. bank (loans), immigration and investors can be interested, but their interests are not covering every corporation out there.

embedding-shape 9mo ago
It's basically a proof of "most basic effort" that you're serious. You could probably note down some stuff on a single A4 and get it approved, it doesn't have to be a 40 page dossier. Kind of like fizzbuzz, just something really simple and most basic to get rid of the "easy scams" and so on. Edit: So "easy scams" are probably the wrong word, I initially wrote "riffraff" because in my mothertoungue that isn't so... disparaging, but what I meant was that it's used as "bare minimum filter" basically.
- zdragnar 9mo ago
  That doesn't really sound like a barrier to the easy scams at all. It just sounds like something someone once thought would be a good idea and now everyone has to do it because that's the process.
- philipallstar 9mo ago
  How would this get rid of easy scams?
- whatevaa 9mo ago
  ChatGPT, give me a convincing sounding business plans for starting a bussiness in Germany. Done.
Xylakant 9mo ago
There’s absolutely no need to have a business plan to start a company in Germany. You articles of incorporation and they state a company purpose, but this can be something as simple as “do IT consulting”. Obviously, having a credible plan helps if you try to convince banks to loan you money or any such thing, but the act of registering a company requires no such thing.

ExoticPearTree 9mo ago

> ... and a business plan? Why would the government need a business plan? It's none of their business what you want to do with your company besides a general description as "software development" or "consulting services" or whatever.

Bewelge 9mo ago
Actually I think I might be mistaken that you are even required to make a business plan. It's listed as one of the steps on the states portal about founding. But it goes on to say that it's not technically required, just highlights its importance. https://www.existenzgruendungsportal.de/Navigation/DE/So-gehts/Businessplan/businessplan https://www.existenzgruendungsportal.de/Navigation/DE/So-geh...
logifail 9mo ago
> It's none of their business what you want to do with your company There are plenty of European member states that want the ability to control very precisely what you do with "your company". You want to call yourself "a software engineer"? Ooops... In the EU it seems particularly the German-speaking countries are borderline obsessed with a) titles, and b) whom may use those titles. See, for instance, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34096464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34096464
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- hermanzegerman 9mo ago
  I like that you know what an Engineer is in German, and not the 1000 BS Meanings it has in the US
- BerislavLopac 9mo ago
  > it seems particularly the German-speaking countries are borderline obsessed with a) titles There is nothing borderline about that - the German cultural space (including very much the countries of former Habsburg Empire) is still completely obsessed with titles and formal positions despite many of them losing any practical importance in modern times.

dcrazy 9mo ago

> business plan This is the problem. Let me pivot. Let me fail. Let my investors (including myself) lose time and money in bad ideas. All the bureaucracy in the world didn’t stop Wirecard, but it sure as heck demotivated people from trying something new in Germany.

Xylakant 9mo ago
There is no problem, because no business plan is required.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

petre 9mo ago

Previous HN discussion about setting up a GmbH. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39959368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39959368