7 ms·

National sovereignty is not national pride. Paying company taxes to the 28th regime evicts tax contributions to the company's home nation. Massive German tax mo

National sovereignty is not national pride. Paying company taxes to the 28th regime evicts tax contributions to the company's home nation. Massive German tax money is already today used for non-national interests. EU-inc makes this only worse.

jcattle 9mo ago
National sovereignty in Europe is not possible without international collaboration.
tietjens 9mo ago
> Massive German tax money is already today used for non-national interests. Please elaborate. You're complaining that DE tax funds go to the EU? Very curious what you're talking about and your rational.
- sevenzero 9mo ago
  It's one of the idiotic "our tax money is spent for bicycle lanes in foreign countries" mindsets many right wingers share in Germany.
  - miroljub 9mo ago
    Just because you accusse people to be "right wingers" because they don't want to fund bicycle lanes in foreign countries doesn't make them wrong. If you want to fund bicycle lanes in foreign countries, go start a fund an fund them privately. For the people that don't know the topic: - yes, German taxpayers are indeed funding bicycle lanes in foreign countries - it's not the only waste of money going to foreign countries And additional questions: - since when is it forbidden to complain against the waste of tax money? - how does favouring tax cuts instead of tax money waste makes you a "right wing"?
    - sevenzero 9mo ago
      What people like you dont understand is what we get back from investing into foreign countries. We dont just build bicycle lanes there because we are such nice people.
      - miroljub 9mo ago
        Can you please explain (ELI style) the great benefits German taxpayers have from the bicycle lanes in Peru?
    - lifty 9mo ago
      I agree with your characterisation of what is going on, and at some point, the EU states will have to decide for full fiscal integration or for removing the common currency. You can't have a common currency without a common fiscal union. So we either have to integrate more or desintegrate more, this inbetween we have now is not working very well. Speaking as a European, not sure what is better.
      - miroljub 9mo ago
        Not related to the comment, but in general I agree with you. You can't have a single monetary system without complete unification, including tax systems, budgeting systems, governance models, retirement systems, benefits. I mean, you can, like we have now, but it's not sustainable, and eventually we all have it worse. As a European, I would not want to go that way, since I'm afraid such a unified EU will be a bureaucratic monster that is even more centralized than the USA, and way more autocratic than any current EU state. I'd rather take a step back, dissolve much of the EU's competences, and go back to pure trade union, dissolve the EURO as a currency, and let every member state take sovereign decisions on their own.
        TeMPOraL 9mo ago
        I recently became much more pro-total-unification, so let me give you this counterpoint: individually, European nations are no match to the major superpowers, neither economically nor militarily. We'll get gutted by divide-and-conquer approach. In contrast, bound much closer together (particularly with some form of pan-european armed forces), the EU would become a proper global superpower and a counterbalance for the USA and China.
  - Wokemon 9mo ago
    [dead]
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  Maybe they're talking about the protection of Israel
- miroljub 9mo ago
  > You're complaining that DE tax funds go to the EU? Very curious what you're talking about and your rational. Germany is the biggest net contributor to the EU. The money comes from German taxpayers, who receive disproportionately little value in return.
  - jorge-d 9mo ago
    This is wrong on so many levels. The German economy profits _a lot_ from the membership. You can't just look at the monetary in/out flows to/from EU accounts but to the system as a whole.
    - 8964689797595 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - harperlee 9mo ago
        For example, decades of pegging the value of the currency down, thus facilitating exports on a massive scale and thus pushing up the performance of whole industries, without other member states that would have had their currency devaluated being able to compete on prize.
      - pegasus 9mo ago
        They probably didn't list any because estimating the upsides versus the downsides is what it's about, and that's very hard to quantify. Suggesting, like you seem to, that there are no upsides to the German economy whatsoever, is just not a serious argument so doesn't actually deserve a serious answer.
      - LunaSea 9mo ago
        Tariffs on Chinese EV cars that would obliterate the German automotive industry and economy?
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
  - 9mo ago
psychoslave 9mo ago
National sovereignty, like "we are able to feed people with food grown on our soils?" Mercosur anyone?
- niemandhier 9mo ago
  To be fair: our soil would greatly benefit from being allowed to rest for a decade. In parts of Europe, our soil essentially depleted. I recommend reading.” 100 harvests.”
  - psychoslave 9mo ago
    This can happen without putting the most part of intensive payload in a form of external dependencies that can be cut at any point by many factors, while losing all the skills and knowledge on how to effectively plant and harvest. Qualified farmers don’t appear magically over night, let alone people with the passion required to invest their own life into it. And exporting the model that ravaged one own land, selling the poison that was forbidden in the countries exporting it, what kind of behavior is that? Letting some land having a bit of rest while the same depletion process is applied elsewhere, how fair is that?
prasoon2211 9mo ago
This is incorrect. Taxes, pensions and labour laws apply according to the country where the EU Inc is operating.
matesz 9mo ago
I don't understand the tax objection. The 28th regime changes corporate law, not fiscal law. A Berlin-based "EU-Inc" still pays full taxes (Körperschaftsteuer, Gewerbesteuer, etc.) to the local Finanzamt. It isn't a disembodied tax haven - it just standardizes the legal wrapper. You are right that this threatens the status quo, though. If this works, founders based in Germany will likely abandon the GmbH. That will require swallowing some national pride and admitting that the current system is simply a less efficient, less competitive legal form for high-growth companies. One thing I think is also worth mentioning are labor rights. I am not arguing against the German model of employee protection. Mitbestimmung could be viewed as a good thing, even if it will mean less power to the VC and / or founders. And frankly, I don't care if the consensus forces strict, German-style Mitbestimmung on the EU-Inc. Stricter form of EU-INC is still vastly better than nothing at all. Asianometry has a great video on the labor rights in germany btw - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0teMtLT9XI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0teMtLT9XI).

jcattle 9mo ago

National sovereignty in Europe is not possible without international collaboration.

tietjens 9mo ago

> Massive German tax money is already today used for non-national interests. Please elaborate. You're complaining that DE tax funds go to the EU? Very curious what you're talking about and your rational.

sevenzero 9mo ago
It's one of the idiotic "our tax money is spent for bicycle lanes in foreign countries" mindsets many right wingers share in Germany.
- miroljub 9mo ago
  Just because you accusse people to be "right wingers" because they don't want to fund bicycle lanes in foreign countries doesn't make them wrong. If you want to fund bicycle lanes in foreign countries, go start a fund an fund them privately. For the people that don't know the topic: - yes, German taxpayers are indeed funding bicycle lanes in foreign countries - it's not the only waste of money going to foreign countries And additional questions: - since when is it forbidden to complain against the waste of tax money? - how does favouring tax cuts instead of tax money waste makes you a "right wing"?
  - sevenzero 9mo ago
    What people like you dont understand is what we get back from investing into foreign countries. We dont just build bicycle lanes there because we are such nice people.
    - miroljub 9mo ago
      Can you please explain (ELI style) the great benefits German taxpayers have from the bicycle lanes in Peru?
  - lifty 9mo ago
    I agree with your characterisation of what is going on, and at some point, the EU states will have to decide for full fiscal integration or for removing the common currency. You can't have a common currency without a common fiscal union. So we either have to integrate more or desintegrate more, this inbetween we have now is not working very well. Speaking as a European, not sure what is better.
    - miroljub 9mo ago
      Not related to the comment, but in general I agree with you. You can't have a single monetary system without complete unification, including tax systems, budgeting systems, governance models, retirement systems, benefits. I mean, you can, like we have now, but it's not sustainable, and eventually we all have it worse. As a European, I would not want to go that way, since I'm afraid such a unified EU will be a bureaucratic monster that is even more centralized than the USA, and way more autocratic than any current EU state. I'd rather take a step back, dissolve much of the EU's competences, and go back to pure trade union, dissolve the EURO as a currency, and let every member state take sovereign decisions on their own.
      - TeMPOraL 9mo ago
        I recently became much more pro-total-unification, so let me give you this counterpoint: individually, European nations are no match to the major superpowers, neither economically nor militarily. We'll get gutted by divide-and-conquer approach. In contrast, bound much closer together (particularly with some form of pan-european armed forces), the EU would become a proper global superpower and a counterbalance for the USA and China.
- Wokemon 9mo ago
  [dead]
direwolf20 9mo ago
Maybe they're talking about the protection of Israel
miroljub 9mo ago
> You're complaining that DE tax funds go to the EU? Very curious what you're talking about and your rational. Germany is the biggest net contributor to the EU. The money comes from German taxpayers, who receive disproportionately little value in return.
- jorge-d 9mo ago
  This is wrong on so many levels. The German economy profits _a lot_ from the membership. You can't just look at the monetary in/out flows to/from EU accounts but to the system as a whole.
  - 8964689797595 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - harperlee 9mo ago
      For example, decades of pegging the value of the currency down, thus facilitating exports on a massive scale and thus pushing up the performance of whole industries, without other member states that would have had their currency devaluated being able to compete on prize.
    - pegasus 9mo ago
      They probably didn't list any because estimating the upsides versus the downsides is what it's about, and that's very hard to quantify. Suggesting, like you seem to, that there are no upsides to the German economy whatsoever, is just not a serious argument so doesn't actually deserve a serious answer.
    - LunaSea 9mo ago
      Tariffs on Chinese EV cars that would obliterate the German automotive industry and economy?
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
- 9mo ago

psychoslave 9mo ago

National sovereignty, like "we are able to feed people with food grown on our soils?" Mercosur anyone?

niemandhier 9mo ago
To be fair: our soil would greatly benefit from being allowed to rest for a decade. In parts of Europe, our soil essentially depleted. I recommend reading.” 100 harvests.”
- psychoslave 9mo ago
  This can happen without putting the most part of intensive payload in a form of external dependencies that can be cut at any point by many factors, while losing all the skills and knowledge on how to effectively plant and harvest. Qualified farmers don’t appear magically over night, let alone people with the passion required to invest their own life into it. And exporting the model that ravaged one own land, selling the poison that was forbidden in the countries exporting it, what kind of behavior is that? Letting some land having a bit of rest while the same depletion process is applied elsewhere, how fair is that?

prasoon2211 9mo ago

This is incorrect. Taxes, pensions and labour laws apply according to the country where the EU Inc is operating.

matesz 9mo ago

I don't understand the tax objection. The 28th regime changes corporate law, not fiscal law. A Berlin-based "EU-Inc" still pays full taxes (Körperschaftsteuer, Gewerbesteuer, etc.) to the local Finanzamt. It isn't a disembodied tax haven - it just standardizes the legal wrapper. You are right that this threatens the status quo, though. If this works, founders based in Germany will likely abandon the GmbH. That will require swallowing some national pride and admitting that the current system is simply a less efficient, less competitive legal form for high-growth companies. One thing I think is also worth mentioning are labor rights. I am not arguing against the German model of employee protection. Mitbestimmung could be viewed as a good thing, even if it will mean less power to the VC and / or founders. And frankly, I don't care if the consensus forces strict, German-style Mitbestimmung on the EU-Inc. Stricter form of EU-INC is still vastly better than nothing at all. Asianometry has a great video on the labor rights in germany btw - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0teMtLT9XI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0teMtLT9XI).