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Indeed. People are actively trying to repair something which cannot be fixed. Now that the US century is over, the only way forward is for the US to use present

Indeed. People are actively trying to repair something which cannot be fixed. Now that the US century is over, the only way forward is for the US to use present military power as a cudgel. Given that the multipolar world is nigh, the only path forward is through. If America and her erstwhile allies are no longer aligned, then any attempt by America to repair this is doomed. Consequently, Trump’s approach is the only way forward.

echelon 9mo ago
> Consequently, Trump’s approach is the only way forward. It's the DoD. Prior to Trump's actions, the American-led "world order" seemed to work, even if we couldn't get China to agree to a "Bretton Woods 2.0". Biden tried diplomacy with the EU. He tried to get them to agree to a renewed US-led world order, but it wasn't working. The EU decided to play the US and China against each other to improve its own standing, which is why the US is now moving away from the EU. I think the US could seriously pull out of NATO and leave the EU to fend off Russia by itself. It'll have to start spending enormous tax dollars on defense and war. Meanwhile, if the world is truly becoming multi-polar, then the US wants to consolidate power in its own hemisphere. This is why there's all the rhetoric and action on Venezuela, Cuba, Greenland, Canada, etc. The US will keep Chinese ports, basing, and trade completely out and secure the trade routes for when the Arctic opens up. It recently changed control over the Panama Canal, and the DoD is dead serious about taking Greenland and maintaining complete hemispheric control. With whatever energy the US has left, it will dedicate to Asia. It will strengthen alliances and project power there instead of dealing with Europe. The world is going to be a much more violent place without hegemony. Free trade doesn't exist in that type of world. The US realizes this and is playing 50 years ahead. None of the nice words matter when the energy, trade, and economic lines are redrawn. People like to say the US is led by lawyers and China is led by scientists and engineers. This is wrong. The US is led by war generals and intelligence. The career DoD folks are the ones impressing upon the administration to make these moves. To be clear: I hate this. I loved the world I grew up in. I think we're headed for a violent world that could easily erupt into war. I don't like it.
- RealityVoid 9mo ago
  > The EU decided to play the US and China against each other to improve its own standing, which is why the US is now moving away from the EU. This is sanewashig this whole thing. The fact is, the US is moving away from the EU because Trump doesn't like democracies. It's that simple. You have a large percentage of your population in what is essentially a cult and you have givem them the reigns.
  - echelon 9mo ago
    > This is sanewashig this whole thing. This was being called back during the Biden admin and before Trump even ran again. Back during the Obama admin, even! https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/no-pivot-needed-the-us-can-secure-europe-and-asia-at-the-same-time/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/no-piv... https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/us-pivot-asia/ https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/us-pivot-asia/ https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/europe-biggest-loser-in-multipolar-world-by-joschka-fischer-2023-05 https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/europe-biggest-... If the US can't build strong coalitions with Europe, it wants to spend its energy elsewhere. Even pop-geopolitik wonk Peter Zeihan was pointing this out during Covid. I can't find his videos, but this has been top of mind for a lot of people for a very long time. These are anti-Trump people, too. Multipolarity means instability, violence, fights over resources, fights over trade. Post-WWII was unusually (relatively) stable. The US can turtle up, just like it did before WWII. It doesn't share a land border with any other major powers, unlike European and Asian countries. It commands the two oceans on its sides (and soon Arctic), and doesn't need anyone else - this was the US' defense posture since its founding.
    - renewiltord 9mo ago
      You’re right. It was in the book Disunited Nations by Zeihan.
    - RealityVoid 9mo ago
      Honestly, the idea of Trump making geopolitically informed decisions is so out of the realm of my perception of reality I don't even know how to engage with you. Trump is a narcissistic idiot that you voted into power. Your geopolitical direction is dictated by his narcissistic whims. "National security reasons Greenland" or "EU collaboration with China" or whatever is exactly what I initially said - sane washing a lunatic. But, anyway, good luck. You'll need it.
silasjohnson123 9mo ago
This is a self fulfilling prophecy. It may only be over because the administration is actively trying to create the multi-polar world. It could absolutely be fixed by Congress re-asserting its power.
- renewiltord 9mo ago
  Something that is “already over” cannot be “un-over”. That’s not how “is already over” works. It means it’s done, finito, not a prophecy but a historical fact. We have to move on. And that means less interference in internal European affairs like Ukraine-Russia and more protection of our interests like consolidation of power over the Atlantic, the Arctic, and the Americas.
  - s4i 9mo ago
    You do realize Denmark/Greenland is (well, at least used to be before this circus act) your ally?
    - renewiltord 9mo ago
      “Used to be” is not “is”. The USSR was an ally. As everyone is pointing out here, there’s no going back. Given that, and as much as I preferred the old order, we have only forward to go. If there were a path back, there’d be a point. But in this discussion, everything has already happened. There’s not much point in saying “if you hadn’t”. Well, Trump did. Having done what he did, nothing to do now but to go full bore. Now that we are on a war footing, potentially with our erstwhile allies who have no interest in renewing the alliance given present conditions, the only path to preserve US control is aggression.
      - s4i 9mo ago
        Path back to what? Time before the US started bullying its allies and destroying Nato? This seems all self-inflicted.
        9mo ago
ijidak 9mo ago
Mankind has never seen the collapse of a nuclear powered empire. What makes us think this is possible? It may not be possible for a nuclear powered empire to fall without the death of billions. Mankind is in uncharted territory. Even Russia never fully fell after the USSR collapsed. Whoever kept the nuclear weapons continued to be a first tier power. Nothing in human history compares to the present question of how the current empires fall. And if they can even do so safely.

echelon 9mo ago

> Consequently, Trump’s approach is the only way forward. It's the DoD. Prior to Trump's actions, the American-led "world order" seemed to work, even if we couldn't get China to agree to a "Bretton Woods 2.0". Biden tried diplomacy with the EU. He tried to get them to agree to a renewed US-led world order, but it wasn't working. The EU decided to play the US and China against each other to improve its own standing, which is why the US is now moving away from the EU. I think the US could seriously pull out of NATO and leave the EU to fend off Russia by itself. It'll have to start spending enormous tax dollars on defense and war. Meanwhile, if the world is truly becoming multi-polar, then the US wants to consolidate power in its own hemisphere. This is why there's all the rhetoric and action on Venezuela, Cuba, Greenland, Canada, etc. The US will keep Chinese ports, basing, and trade completely out and secure the trade routes for when the Arctic opens up. It recently changed control over the Panama Canal, and the DoD is dead serious about taking Greenland and maintaining complete hemispheric control. With whatever energy the US has left, it will dedicate to Asia. It will strengthen alliances and project power there instead of dealing with Europe. The world is going to be a much more violent place without hegemony. Free trade doesn't exist in that type of world. The US realizes this and is playing 50 years ahead. None of the nice words matter when the energy, trade, and economic lines are redrawn. People like to say the US is led by lawyers and China is led by scientists and engineers. This is wrong. The US is led by war generals and intelligence. The career DoD folks are the ones impressing upon the administration to make these moves. To be clear: I hate this. I loved the world I grew up in. I think we're headed for a violent world that could easily erupt into war. I don't like it.

RealityVoid 9mo ago
> The EU decided to play the US and China against each other to improve its own standing, which is why the US is now moving away from the EU. This is sanewashig this whole thing. The fact is, the US is moving away from the EU because Trump doesn't like democracies. It's that simple. You have a large percentage of your population in what is essentially a cult and you have givem them the reigns.
- echelon 9mo ago
  > This is sanewashig this whole thing. This was being called back during the Biden admin and before Trump even ran again. Back during the Obama admin, even! https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/no-pivot-needed-the-us-can-secure-europe-and-asia-at-the-same-time/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/no-piv... https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/us-pivot-asia/ https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/us-pivot-asia/ https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/europe-biggest-loser-in-multipolar-world-by-joschka-fischer-2023-05 https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/europe-biggest-... If the US can't build strong coalitions with Europe, it wants to spend its energy elsewhere. Even pop-geopolitik wonk Peter Zeihan was pointing this out during Covid. I can't find his videos, but this has been top of mind for a lot of people for a very long time. These are anti-Trump people, too. Multipolarity means instability, violence, fights over resources, fights over trade. Post-WWII was unusually (relatively) stable. The US can turtle up, just like it did before WWII. It doesn't share a land border with any other major powers, unlike European and Asian countries. It commands the two oceans on its sides (and soon Arctic), and doesn't need anyone else - this was the US' defense posture since its founding.
  - renewiltord 9mo ago
    You’re right. It was in the book Disunited Nations by Zeihan.
  - RealityVoid 9mo ago
    Honestly, the idea of Trump making geopolitically informed decisions is so out of the realm of my perception of reality I don't even know how to engage with you. Trump is a narcissistic idiot that you voted into power. Your geopolitical direction is dictated by his narcissistic whims. "National security reasons Greenland" or "EU collaboration with China" or whatever is exactly what I initially said - sane washing a lunatic. But, anyway, good luck. You'll need it.

silasjohnson123 9mo ago

This is a self fulfilling prophecy. It may only be over because the administration is actively trying to create the multi-polar world. It could absolutely be fixed by Congress re-asserting its power.

renewiltord 9mo ago
Something that is “already over” cannot be “un-over”. That’s not how “is already over” works. It means it’s done, finito, not a prophecy but a historical fact. We have to move on. And that means less interference in internal European affairs like Ukraine-Russia and more protection of our interests like consolidation of power over the Atlantic, the Arctic, and the Americas.
- s4i 9mo ago
  You do realize Denmark/Greenland is (well, at least used to be before this circus act) your ally?
  - renewiltord 9mo ago
    “Used to be” is not “is”. The USSR was an ally. As everyone is pointing out here, there’s no going back. Given that, and as much as I preferred the old order, we have only forward to go. If there were a path back, there’d be a point. But in this discussion, everything has already happened. There’s not much point in saying “if you hadn’t”. Well, Trump did. Having done what he did, nothing to do now but to go full bore. Now that we are on a war footing, potentially with our erstwhile allies who have no interest in renewing the alliance given present conditions, the only path to preserve US control is aggression.
    - s4i 9mo ago
      Path back to what? Time before the US started bullying its allies and destroying Nato? This seems all self-inflicted.
      - 9mo ago

ijidak 9mo ago

Mankind has never seen the collapse of a nuclear powered empire. What makes us think this is possible? It may not be possible for a nuclear powered empire to fall without the death of billions. Mankind is in uncharted territory. Even Russia never fully fell after the USSR collapsed. Whoever kept the nuclear weapons continued to be a first tier power. Nothing in human history compares to the present question of how the current empires fall. And if they can even do so safely.