3 ms·

It isn't prohibited by the constitution and was created as an independent body. You are correct that it wasn't specifically outlined by the constitution but th

by munk-a 9mo ago

It isn't prohibited by the constitution and was created as an independent body. You are correct that it wasn't specifically outlined by the constitution but that's an empty statement - the constitution included the allowance of the creation of agencies and laws outside of itself... that's the main power and strength of the constitution. Your statement was equivalent to saying that Hacker News has no constitutional right to exist - it is equally vapid.

calvinmorrison 9mo ago
Maybe unsaid but the idea that Congress can create an organization that is not executed by the executive is the issue
- shawabawa3 9mo ago
  Isn't that the entire point of congress? Otherwise why not just have an all powerful president and do away with the houses
  - realo 9mo ago
    Just wait for next year under the current administration ...
  - blibble 9mo ago
    you appear to be there already
- fatbird 9mo ago
  It wasn't an issue for 250 years, or at least until the Unitary Executive Theory became a dream of the Federalist Society.
- SailorJerry 9mo ago
  I don't understand why you're being downvoted. This sounds like a reasonably debatable argument.
  - mkoubaa 9mo ago
    There's a lot of groupthink around this. I blame the pseudoscience called economics
- dv_dt 9mo ago
  If you go by the default constitutional allocations, Congress starts with much tighter control of how the executive operates than it does now. Via passage of laws, Congress over the years has chosen to delegate a lot of responsibility to the executive branch - some for pragmatic management reasons, but some as a trend of historic concentration of power towards the executive. Congress can also delegate to non exec branch bodies like the Fed and other quasi-govermental orgs. Congress has the constitutional purview to take back a lot of that power into it's direct hands instead of allocating it to other bodies if it so chose.
  - vablings 9mo ago
    > Via passage of laws, Congress over the years has chosen to delegate a lot of responsibility to the executive branch Part of the reason for this is that 2-year presidents are more common, they make promises within the first two years and even if they meet them, it can take years for effects to be seen in the general population, so the party loses majority in the midterms and then nothing happens politically for the remaining two years. Congress is often slow and burdensome (for good reason) but it always makes out for a disenfranchised voter base
mothballed 9mo ago
The 10th amendment limits the federal government to the enumerated powers. So your argument that it "isn't prohibited" isn't how this works. You have to justify it under an enumerated power (which, you might well be able to do, though this is debatable).
- munk-a 9mo ago
  I am not a constitutional scholar so a better expert may be able to provide a more sound response but I believe the Commerce Clause is generally accepted to include currency control (and early tests of federalism in the US found that independent state currencies could be restricted by the federal government).
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
- throwaway290 9mo ago
  > The 10th amendment limits the federal government to the enumerated powers. federal reserve is not government... that's kinda the entire point) its why current US admin is being so butthurt about it, it's not under its control.
  - mothballed 9mo ago
    What does it mean that the Federal Reserve is "independent within the government"? The Federal Reserve, like many other central banks, is an independent government agency The federal reserve calls themselves "within the government" and a government agency. Isn't it fraud (and indeed wire fraud) to falsely represent yourself as a government agency to induce a financial transaction? https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12799.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12799.htm
    - throwaway290 9mo ago
      > Isn't it fraud (and indeed wire fraud) to falsely represent yourself as a government agency to induce a financial transaction? Hmm what transaction it induces? You'll need to check the law that created the Fed. Maybe it makes sure that doing whatever the fed needs to do the job is not a crime

by munk-a 9mo ago

calvinmorrison 9mo ago

Maybe unsaid but the idea that Congress can create an organization that is not executed by the executive is the issue

shawabawa3 9mo ago
Isn't that the entire point of congress? Otherwise why not just have an all powerful president and do away with the houses
- realo 9mo ago
  Just wait for next year under the current administration ...
- blibble 9mo ago
  you appear to be there already
fatbird 9mo ago
It wasn't an issue for 250 years, or at least until the Unitary Executive Theory became a dream of the Federalist Society.
SailorJerry 9mo ago
I don't understand why you're being downvoted. This sounds like a reasonably debatable argument.
- mkoubaa 9mo ago
  There's a lot of groupthink around this. I blame the pseudoscience called economics
dv_dt 9mo ago
If you go by the default constitutional allocations, Congress starts with much tighter control of how the executive operates than it does now. Via passage of laws, Congress over the years has chosen to delegate a lot of responsibility to the executive branch - some for pragmatic management reasons, but some as a trend of historic concentration of power towards the executive. Congress can also delegate to non exec branch bodies like the Fed and other quasi-govermental orgs. Congress has the constitutional purview to take back a lot of that power into it's direct hands instead of allocating it to other bodies if it so chose.
- vablings 9mo ago
  > Via passage of laws, Congress over the years has chosen to delegate a lot of responsibility to the executive branch Part of the reason for this is that 2-year presidents are more common, they make promises within the first two years and even if they meet them, it can take years for effects to be seen in the general population, so the party loses majority in the midterms and then nothing happens politically for the remaining two years. Congress is often slow and burdensome (for good reason) but it always makes out for a disenfranchised voter base

mothballed 9mo ago

The 10th amendment limits the federal government to the enumerated powers. So your argument that it "isn't prohibited" isn't how this works. You have to justify it under an enumerated power (which, you might well be able to do, though this is debatable).

munk-a 9mo ago
I am not a constitutional scholar so a better expert may be able to provide a more sound response but I believe the Commerce Clause is generally accepted to include currency control (and early tests of federalism in the US found that independent state currencies could be restricted by the federal government).
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
throwaway290 9mo ago
> The 10th amendment limits the federal government to the enumerated powers. federal reserve is not government... that's kinda the entire point) its why current US admin is being so butthurt about it, it's not under its control.
- mothballed 9mo ago
  What does it mean that the Federal Reserve is "independent within the government"? The Federal Reserve, like many other central banks, is an independent government agency The federal reserve calls themselves "within the government" and a government agency. Isn't it fraud (and indeed wire fraud) to falsely represent yourself as a government agency to induce a financial transaction? https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12799.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12799.htm
  - throwaway290 9mo ago
    > Isn't it fraud (and indeed wire fraud) to falsely represent yourself as a government agency to induce a financial transaction? Hmm what transaction it induces? You'll need to check the law that created the Fed. Maybe it makes sure that doing whatever the fed needs to do the job is not a crime