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You have no idea how many men are going to find this and be emboldened by it. Men seek permission from women when it comes to pushing sexual boundaries. I don'

by nilum 9mo ago

You have no idea how many men are going to find this and be emboldened by it. Men seek permission from women when it comes to pushing sexual boundaries. I don't care what her mental state is. She needs to be banned from the Internet.

JasonADrury 9mo ago
Emboldened to ... spend money on prostitutes?
- Drupon 9mo ago
  Ignoring that I think spending money on prostitutes is unethical as labor is coerced (either work or starve), meaning that sexual labor is sex obtained through coercion (there is a terser name for this), the things Aella likes to defend include things like AI generated CSAM, as well as trying to push the boundaries on what might be considered ethical ways to engage sexually with children. I have said it elsewhere, but this kind of specious moral pondering was employed extensively by groups like NAMBLA and others in the 20th century to provide moral cover for themselves.
  - JasonADrury 9mo ago
    > meaning that sexual labor is sex obtained through coercion (there is a terser name for this) In a world where all labor is slave labor, rape presumably isn't particularly frowned upon. If I'm going to accept your premise that basically everything I have in life is obtained through coercion, why would I object to obtaining sex that way? > the things Aella likes to defend include things like AI generated CSAM, as well as trying to push the boundaries on what might be considered ethical ways to engage sexually with children One of these is not like the other. People advocating for AI generated child pornography are generally doing so as a means of reducing the frequency of people actually having sex with children. "AI generated CSAM" is an oxymoron FWIW, it's impossible to sexually abuse a child which does not exist.
    - cess11 9mo ago
      '"AI generated CSAM" is an oxymoron FWIW, it's impossible to sexually abuse a child which does not exist.' Would you agree that fictional stories about how blacks want to and commit rape and murder are fine? Is it OK to 'grok' out simulated undressings of small children because the image technically no longer depict them and instead are fantasy?
      - JasonADrury 9mo ago
        >Would you agree that fictional stories about how blacks want to and commit rape and murder are fine? "Fine" in what sense? >Is it OK to 'grok' out simulated undressings of small children because the image technically no longer depict them and instead are fantasy? Why would it not be OK? There is nobody being harmed.
        cess11 9mo ago
        Pick some sense you're comfortable with. If I sneak a nude photo of you and use some "AI" to add a funny hat and then spread it, would you be OK with that?
        JasonADrury 9mo ago
        >If I sneak a nude photo of you and use some "AI" to add a funny hat and then spread it, would you be OK with that? How is this even vaguely related? I'm a real person, but we're presumably discussing people who do not exist.
        cess11 9mo ago
        And kids aren't?
        JasonADrury 9mo ago
        No? That's the whole point. The people advocating for AI generated child pornography are generally not advocating for AI generated child pornography portraying real children.
  - imtringued 9mo ago
    The problem with your argument is that you could have made the exact opposite argument in reverse as well, e.g. saying that all work is sex work, since the only goal of work is to reproduce. The coercion framework is useless, because you don't actually care about coercion at all. If there is a parallel world without coercion but prostitution, you would probably still argue that prostitution is coercive. This is because your argument fundamentally rests on the idea that you can just pick whatever situation has the fitting "moral consequence" and ascribe it to the thing you don't like to hide your own subjective opinion under the pretense of objectivity. What reality tells us is that prostitutes don't need help getting their profession banned. They need help with switching careers and since society is built on musical chair economics, there aren't enough chairs to for them to sit on.
    - Drupon 9mo ago
      >If there is a parallel world without coercion but prostitution, you would probably still argue that prostitution is coercive. If no one needed to work to survive and live a dignified life, then I would not think seeing a prostitute was an act of rape, yes, but I would expect a dramatic drop in people who choose to have sex with random strangers in exchange for resources without those motivating needs. >This is because your argument fundamentally rests on the idea that you can just pick whatever situation has the fitting "moral consequence" and ascribe it to the thing you don't like to hide your own subjective opinion under the pretense of objectivity. Aww, you've discovered the is-ought problem. Spoiler: Every moral judgment has this problem. >They need help with switching careers and since society is built on musical chair economics, there aren't enough chairs to for them to sit on. I guarantee that in developed countries, there are enough chairs. The main obstacles are mental illness (often as a result of childhood trauma) and substance abuse stopping them from engaging in the economy legally. Instead, they end up joining the lumpenproles, just like men in similar situations turn to various petty crimes.
      - JasonADrury 9mo ago
        >If no one needed to work to survive and live a dignified life, then I would not think seeing a prostitute was an act of rape, yes, but I would expect a dramatic drop in people who choose to have sex with random strangers in exchange for resources without those motivating needs. If a prostitute is charging $1000 per hour, are they only being raped for the first couple of hours in a month?

by nilum 9mo ago

JasonADrury 9mo ago

Emboldened to ... spend money on prostitutes?

Drupon 9mo ago
Ignoring that I think spending money on prostitutes is unethical as labor is coerced (either work or starve), meaning that sexual labor is sex obtained through coercion (there is a terser name for this), the things Aella likes to defend include things like AI generated CSAM, as well as trying to push the boundaries on what might be considered ethical ways to engage sexually with children. I have said it elsewhere, but this kind of specious moral pondering was employed extensively by groups like NAMBLA and others in the 20th century to provide moral cover for themselves.
- JasonADrury 9mo ago
  > meaning that sexual labor is sex obtained through coercion (there is a terser name for this) In a world where all labor is slave labor, rape presumably isn't particularly frowned upon. If I'm going to accept your premise that basically everything I have in life is obtained through coercion, why would I object to obtaining sex that way? > the things Aella likes to defend include things like AI generated CSAM, as well as trying to push the boundaries on what might be considered ethical ways to engage sexually with children One of these is not like the other. People advocating for AI generated child pornography are generally doing so as a means of reducing the frequency of people actually having sex with children. "AI generated CSAM" is an oxymoron FWIW, it's impossible to sexually abuse a child which does not exist.
  - cess11 9mo ago
    '"AI generated CSAM" is an oxymoron FWIW, it's impossible to sexually abuse a child which does not exist.' Would you agree that fictional stories about how blacks want to and commit rape and murder are fine? Is it OK to 'grok' out simulated undressings of small children because the image technically no longer depict them and instead are fantasy?
    - JasonADrury 9mo ago
      >Would you agree that fictional stories about how blacks want to and commit rape and murder are fine? "Fine" in what sense? >Is it OK to 'grok' out simulated undressings of small children because the image technically no longer depict them and instead are fantasy? Why would it not be OK? There is nobody being harmed.
      - cess11 9mo ago
        Pick some sense you're comfortable with. If I sneak a nude photo of you and use some "AI" to add a funny hat and then spread it, would you be OK with that?
        JasonADrury 9mo ago
        >If I sneak a nude photo of you and use some "AI" to add a funny hat and then spread it, would you be OK with that? How is this even vaguely related? I'm a real person, but we're presumably discussing people who do not exist.
        cess11 9mo ago
        And kids aren't?
        JasonADrury 9mo ago
        No? That's the whole point. The people advocating for AI generated child pornography are generally not advocating for AI generated child pornography portraying real children.
- imtringued 9mo ago
  The problem with your argument is that you could have made the exact opposite argument in reverse as well, e.g. saying that all work is sex work, since the only goal of work is to reproduce. The coercion framework is useless, because you don't actually care about coercion at all. If there is a parallel world without coercion but prostitution, you would probably still argue that prostitution is coercive. This is because your argument fundamentally rests on the idea that you can just pick whatever situation has the fitting "moral consequence" and ascribe it to the thing you don't like to hide your own subjective opinion under the pretense of objectivity. What reality tells us is that prostitutes don't need help getting their profession banned. They need help with switching careers and since society is built on musical chair economics, there aren't enough chairs to for them to sit on.
  - Drupon 9mo ago
    >If there is a parallel world without coercion but prostitution, you would probably still argue that prostitution is coercive. If no one needed to work to survive and live a dignified life, then I would not think seeing a prostitute was an act of rape, yes, but I would expect a dramatic drop in people who choose to have sex with random strangers in exchange for resources without those motivating needs. >This is because your argument fundamentally rests on the idea that you can just pick whatever situation has the fitting "moral consequence" and ascribe it to the thing you don't like to hide your own subjective opinion under the pretense of objectivity. Aww, you've discovered the is-ought problem. Spoiler: Every moral judgment has this problem. >They need help with switching careers and since society is built on musical chair economics, there aren't enough chairs to for them to sit on. I guarantee that in developed countries, there are enough chairs. The main obstacles are mental illness (often as a result of childhood trauma) and substance abuse stopping them from engaging in the economy legally. Instead, they end up joining the lumpenproles, just like men in similar situations turn to various petty crimes.
    - JasonADrury 9mo ago
      >If no one needed to work to survive and live a dignified life, then I would not think seeing a prostitute was an act of rape, yes, but I would expect a dramatic drop in people who choose to have sex with random strangers in exchange for resources without those motivating needs. If a prostitute is charging $1000 per hour, are they only being raped for the first couple of hours in a month?