6 ms·

The Overly Analytical Guide to Escorting (2021)

46 points by andsoitis 10mo ago

everybodyknows 10mo ago
2021
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
Drupon 10mo ago
After I learned about her childhood, a lot of her most odious writing online, particularly coming up with poll after poll about hypotheticals in which it might be ok for an adult to have sex with a child [1] [2] [3], made much more sense. She is still dealing with the trauma, trying to bargain with it (the polls on Twitter), trying to gain control over it (much of her personal sexual expression involves simulating what happened again in a controlled setting), and completely in denial about it which means that she's causing harm to people who read these kinds of discussions and don't know this, whether she understands it or not. Best to just avoid her altogether online. 1: https://x.com/Aella_Girl/status/1643703433516441602 https://x.com/Aella_Girl/status/1643703433516441602 2: https://x.com/Aella_Girl/status/1721238228458430785 https://x.com/Aella_Girl/status/1721238228458430785 3: https://substack.com/home/post/p-161405272 https://substack.com/home/post/p-161405272
- JasonADrury 10mo ago
  Yeah, the polls are weird, but I'm not sure your armchair psychologists interpretation of her life is any less weird.
  - Drupon 10mo ago
    You don't think that being molested by your grandfather might have something to do with replaying that molestation obsessively throughout your life, and trying to come up with hypotheticals in which it can actually be ok? I'm just operating at the preponderance of evidence level here, and it seems far more likely to be to case that extreme childhood sexual caused the extreme sexual deviation. Do your P(A|B) work here, it's not hard, given the small probability of both of those things.
    - JasonADrury 10mo ago
      Even if you're correct that her being abused in her childhood is related to her choice of career, what do you think you're adding to the conversation by bringing that up? What are you actually trying to do here besides shame her for having been abused as a child? That's really the only takeaway from your comment here, that people shouldn't read her writing about prostitution as a business because she was abused as a child. That seems particularly nasty on your part, even if unintentional.
      - Drupon 10mo ago
        >related to her choice of career Didn't imply this. However, the science is that childhood sexual abuse is an antecedent to prostitution. >What are you actually trying to do here besides shame her for having been abused as a child? Warn others that she is dangerous and shouldn't be taken seriously.
        JasonADrury 10mo ago
        >Warn others that she is dangerous and shouldn't be taken seriously. Is this post dangerous? You certainly didn't refer to any particular dangerous content, just shouting about a couple of weird tweets doesn't seem very useful. I really don't get it, unless you're specifically upset by her quite reasonable post about AI generated child pornography, but that'd be weird. > However, the science is that childhood sexual abuse is an antecedent to prostitution. Even if a causal relationship has been proven, that doesn't mean any correlation implies causation.
        Drupon 10mo ago
        >Even if a causal relationship has been proven, that doesn't mean any correlation implies causation. This is HN, not a psychology conference or a therapy session. Feel free to accept or reject my level of epistemological rigor. I just know my priors, and honestly I don't see the value in continuing this conversation if you don't (or pretend you don't). If a lifetime alcoholic died of liver failure, it's entirely possible that he got hepatitis, but I'm going to go ahead and say it was the alcohol and treat any quibbling about causation and correlation as an irrelevant diversion.
- JuniperMesos 10mo ago
  Regardless of whether or not your assessment of her internal mental state is true (and I think this is a very hard thing to be sure you're assessing correctly), I don't think that anyone is harmed in any meaningful way by reading her discussions about hypothetical sexual situations, even if you personally find them distasteful.
  - Drupon 10mo ago
    >I don't think that anyone is harmed in any meaningful way by reading her discussions about hypothetical sexual situations She advocates for the value of AI generated CSAM, and her hypotheticals are attempts at deluded rationalization, the rationalization of could easily sway the actions of others. When I read her rationalizations and hypothetical moral scenarios, I am just reminded of the arguments from the New Left, including many of the voices of the French petition to remove the age of consent, that offered specious sophistry to not just sway others into allowing them to prey on children, but to encourage others with similar predilections to do so without moral qualms. A good specific example was the placing of orphans in the homes of known sex offenders in East Germany, with the rationalization that it's better than the orphans endure a bit of sexual impropriety than to suffer negligence, which is a very Aella style argument.
    - defrost 10mo ago
      Can you link to the tweet / blog post in which Aella advocated for the actual placement of real children with known sex offenders?
      - Drupon 10mo ago
        You think Aella lived in East Germany? Obviously I was giving an example of a different situation in which her kind of specious moral reasoning resulted in the enablement of child sexual abuse.
        defrost 10mo ago
        Obviously I didn't think Aella lives in East Germany for a single moment. I was interested in your reasoning as you appeared to be off on a tangent making what is known as a strawman argument.
- paganel 10mo ago
  Thought that this Aella at first, too bad that this is indeed her. Pretty sad and bleak story, hope her life will become better and more fulfilled, I genuinely do.
- crimsoneer 10mo ago
  This is an awful lot of very puritanical armchair psychiatry from a random man on the internet. She's doing something she finds interesting, in a surprisingly data driven way, and seemingly not harming anyone, you can put the pitchfork and handmaid's tale fantasies away.
  - Drupon 10mo ago
    >in a surprisingly data driven way If you think posting sporadic 4 choice polls about sex to a population consisting of gooners following a porn actress and prostitute on Twitter constitutes "data driven", then I can see how you would find Aella to be an intellectually engaging person.
    - JuniperMesos 10mo ago
      Yes that constitutes being data driven, why wouldn't it? It's tautological that if a person who works as a porn actress and prostitution puts out polls on Twitter, the population of people who answer those polls will consist of people who follow a porn actress and prostitute on Twitter, but why does that affect the quality of the data? How can you evaluate whether someone counts as a "gooner" or not based on whether they follow a specific person on Twitter or answer a poll about sex?
      - Drupon 10mo ago
        >but why does that affect the quality of the data If I poll only insurance company executives on whether the country should do away with private insurance and switch to universal healthcare, I haven't really done anything "data driven", have I? Taking a fat shit in my toilet "generates data", but I wouldn't call that visit to my bathroom "data driven", would I? Collecting sex poll responses from people who follow porn stars who specialize in rape and similar fantasy porn does not collect any data except what extreme porn consumers think about sexuality, which is of little use to making generalizations. >How can you evaluate whether someone counts as a "gooner" or not based on whether they follow a specific person on Twitter or answer a poll about sex? Following porn stars is absolutely gooner behavior, so yes, it makes a person a gooner.
JasonADrury 10mo ago
Damn, that's a damning screenshot from the cop forum https://i0.wp.com/knowingless.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/image-6.png?ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/knowingless.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10... >As an aside, for as long as my fake escort page was up, I was getting text messages to the GV number from guys in this other state trying to set up dates. would run their phone numbers and find out who they were, it was amazing how much some of them stood to lose if they were caught. It's incredible to see cops just openly bragging about abusing the access they have.
- immibis 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Gud 10mo ago
    I don't know who these "people" are, but it's logical that people who have a dislike for police would call them bastards, no matter if the police are bastards or not...
    - NoGravitas 10mo ago
      Yeah, but you don't see anyone saying all EMTs are bastards.
- isolli 10mo ago
  What does BP mean, in the context of the screenshot?
  - JasonADrury 10mo ago
    backpage.com
  - dzmien 10mo ago
    BP stands for Backpage, a now defunct online classifieds site, which was utilized by sex workers of all kinds in its heyday.
Sam6late 10mo ago
Which professions are similar on mileage here? I think Chappelle was spot on, when he used the book ‘The Story of My Life by Iceberg Slim’ to confront the entertainment industry highlighting a concept from the book regarding "mileage on a hoe" (prostitute). He explains that a pimp understands there is a finite amount of "bad things" or work a person can endure before they "lose it" or break down.
isolli 10mo ago
Previously discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28924751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28924751
- waffleiron 10mo ago
  I know we are currently very early in the comment section, but I cant help compare and notice the shift in tone and response.
  - red-iron-pine 10mo ago
    bots exist to poison discourse, and they work here too
comrade1234 10mo ago
She's not making $1200/hr. Total b.s.
- JasonADrury 10mo ago
  Why wouldn't she? That's hardly crazy for any bigger city, and she's got a massive online following. Even if she looks a bit more plain than the average girl charging that much, there's a plenty of customers who want just that and her platform is massive.
- greggsy 10mo ago
  I know literally nothing about the financial aspects of the industry. Can you expand the on that?
  - JasonADrury 10mo ago
    GP seems to live in a small European city with a pretty small market for this stuff. I seriously doubt there are any Zurich-based escorts earning $1200 hour. In London anything between 200 and 1000GBP per hour is completely ordinary, there will not even necessarily be a strong correlation between pricing and the quality of service. It is not super unusual to see people charging more than 1000GBP/h either. There's a huge discovery problem in the prostitution market, it's really hard for a customer to differentiate between providers without actually visiting them. In many places it's hard to find useful reviews, so you're stuck choosing a provider based on heavily photoshopped photos and hoping for the best. Charging more is probably a good strategy to differentiate yourself.
- isolli 10mo ago
  Sounds normal to me... see Eliot Spitzer [0]: > $4,300 is not an altogether alarming sum of money in the high-end sex market > In New York, it’s not hard to find sex workers who charge $10,000 per “session,” which can last for 15 minutes or two hours. [0] https://slate.com/business/2008/03/did-eliot-spitzer-get-caught-because-he-didn-t-spend-enough-on-prostitutes.html https://slate.com/business/2008/03/did-eliot-spitzer-get-cau...
my_throwaway23 10mo ago
I'm not sure how to begin to describe the feeling of reading an analytical take on working as an escort. Weird. Side note: Every single AMA/QA with a prostitute I've seen I've posted a question I'm anxious to know the answer to, but my question has consistently not received any reply. In essence; Every single job I've ever had has left me with a little bit of muscle memory - a key combination here, a routine there. When working as a prostitute, what are the small little things you're left with that might stay with you for quite a bit after your... career has moved on? Alas, I suspect there's no easy answer to it, considering, well...
- JasonADrury 10mo ago
  I'm not a prostitute, but I'd guess you'll develop muscle memory for the condoms. Sure, you can get better at sex too, but it's going to be difficult to put most of those lessons into words. As a woman, you're likely to end up learning a lot of things about personal hygiene that'll stay with you.
hinata08 10mo ago
Why was this flagged ? Isn't making 1200$/h while being self employed the goal for HNers ? Isn't HN supposed to be open minded ? This is the most HN post we saw ou there in a while. As if boasting how code was improved at GAFAMs despite actually thought challenging social implications, reduced wages and layoffs was the only point of this board.
- GeoAtreides 10mo ago
  It's obvious the flagging system is not working anymore, and still the mods are not doing anything
  - dang 10mo ago
    I addressed this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46378818 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46378818, albeit more in the context of political stories—but I think the same point applies here too. If you wouldn't mind reading that and letting me know if you still have a question that isn't answered there, I'd be interested in hearing what it is.
    - hinata08 10mo ago
      Thank you so much for reviewing flagged content and giving a second chance to this post As a rare contributor to these sites, I often feel blunt and unbalanced when some old users just flag your work made with good intents so that it vanishes, without taking any time to even comment why, fix it, or think about prejudices for the platform (which it not just their bubble) and users. My first new page on wikipedia was immediately marked for deletion as some random user who wouldn't bother message me, reference it on related articles or contribute just flagged it for being orphaned and bad. I won't bother creating pages anymore. (While OSM has forums to discuss things and is overly chill about learning to contribute on the actual map) I will not complain that this happens often on HN as it does not. Most users are kind and curious. * Flags aren't overwhelmingly abused. * However, this particular story is about sex workers who opened up, giving rare accounts that you won't find anywhere in a way that not only agrees to guidelines but looks like any popular story here. Sex workers are often discriminated against in a lot of places. Flagging this story could warn that HN is public places and everyone isn't that safe or open minded. Any actual discussion shouldn't be trapped in private Discord servers, this site should remain the place to challenge your technical, sociological and business related perspectives.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]

46 points by andsoitis 10mo ago

everybodyknows 10mo ago

2021

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

Drupon 10mo ago

After I learned about her childhood, a lot of her most odious writing online, particularly coming up with poll after poll about hypotheticals in which it might be ok for an adult to have sex with a child [1] [2] [3], made much more sense. She is still dealing with the trauma, trying to bargain with it (the polls on Twitter), trying to gain control over it (much of her personal sexual expression involves simulating what happened again in a controlled setting), and completely in denial about it which means that she's causing harm to people who read these kinds of discussions and don't know this, whether she understands it or not. Best to just avoid her altogether online. 1: https://x.com/Aella_Girl/status/1643703433516441602 https://x.com/Aella_Girl/status/1643703433516441602 2: https://x.com/Aella_Girl/status/1721238228458430785 https://x.com/Aella_Girl/status/1721238228458430785 3: https://substack.com/home/post/p-161405272 https://substack.com/home/post/p-161405272

JasonADrury 10mo ago
Yeah, the polls are weird, but I'm not sure your armchair psychologists interpretation of her life is any less weird.
- Drupon 10mo ago
  You don't think that being molested by your grandfather might have something to do with replaying that molestation obsessively throughout your life, and trying to come up with hypotheticals in which it can actually be ok? I'm just operating at the preponderance of evidence level here, and it seems far more likely to be to case that extreme childhood sexual caused the extreme sexual deviation. Do your P(A|B) work here, it's not hard, given the small probability of both of those things.
  - JasonADrury 10mo ago
    Even if you're correct that her being abused in her childhood is related to her choice of career, what do you think you're adding to the conversation by bringing that up? What are you actually trying to do here besides shame her for having been abused as a child? That's really the only takeaway from your comment here, that people shouldn't read her writing about prostitution as a business because she was abused as a child. That seems particularly nasty on your part, even if unintentional.
    - Drupon 10mo ago
      >related to her choice of career Didn't imply this. However, the science is that childhood sexual abuse is an antecedent to prostitution. >What are you actually trying to do here besides shame her for having been abused as a child? Warn others that she is dangerous and shouldn't be taken seriously.
      - JasonADrury 10mo ago
        >Warn others that she is dangerous and shouldn't be taken seriously. Is this post dangerous? You certainly didn't refer to any particular dangerous content, just shouting about a couple of weird tweets doesn't seem very useful. I really don't get it, unless you're specifically upset by her quite reasonable post about AI generated child pornography, but that'd be weird. > However, the science is that childhood sexual abuse is an antecedent to prostitution. Even if a causal relationship has been proven, that doesn't mean any correlation implies causation.
        Drupon 10mo ago
        >Even if a causal relationship has been proven, that doesn't mean any correlation implies causation. This is HN, not a psychology conference or a therapy session. Feel free to accept or reject my level of epistemological rigor. I just know my priors, and honestly I don't see the value in continuing this conversation if you don't (or pretend you don't). If a lifetime alcoholic died of liver failure, it's entirely possible that he got hepatitis, but I'm going to go ahead and say it was the alcohol and treat any quibbling about causation and correlation as an irrelevant diversion.
JuniperMesos 10mo ago
Regardless of whether or not your assessment of her internal mental state is true (and I think this is a very hard thing to be sure you're assessing correctly), I don't think that anyone is harmed in any meaningful way by reading her discussions about hypothetical sexual situations, even if you personally find them distasteful.
- Drupon 10mo ago
  >I don't think that anyone is harmed in any meaningful way by reading her discussions about hypothetical sexual situations She advocates for the value of AI generated CSAM, and her hypotheticals are attempts at deluded rationalization, the rationalization of could easily sway the actions of others. When I read her rationalizations and hypothetical moral scenarios, I am just reminded of the arguments from the New Left, including many of the voices of the French petition to remove the age of consent, that offered specious sophistry to not just sway others into allowing them to prey on children, but to encourage others with similar predilections to do so without moral qualms. A good specific example was the placing of orphans in the homes of known sex offenders in East Germany, with the rationalization that it's better than the orphans endure a bit of sexual impropriety than to suffer negligence, which is a very Aella style argument.
  - defrost 10mo ago
    Can you link to the tweet / blog post in which Aella advocated for the actual placement of real children with known sex offenders?
    - Drupon 10mo ago
      You think Aella lived in East Germany? Obviously I was giving an example of a different situation in which her kind of specious moral reasoning resulted in the enablement of child sexual abuse.
      - defrost 10mo ago
        Obviously I didn't think Aella lives in East Germany for a single moment. I was interested in your reasoning as you appeared to be off on a tangent making what is known as a strawman argument.
paganel 10mo ago
Thought that this Aella at first, too bad that this is indeed her. Pretty sad and bleak story, hope her life will become better and more fulfilled, I genuinely do.
crimsoneer 10mo ago
This is an awful lot of very puritanical armchair psychiatry from a random man on the internet. She's doing something she finds interesting, in a surprisingly data driven way, and seemingly not harming anyone, you can put the pitchfork and handmaid's tale fantasies away.
- Drupon 10mo ago
  >in a surprisingly data driven way If you think posting sporadic 4 choice polls about sex to a population consisting of gooners following a porn actress and prostitute on Twitter constitutes "data driven", then I can see how you would find Aella to be an intellectually engaging person.
  - JuniperMesos 10mo ago
    Yes that constitutes being data driven, why wouldn't it? It's tautological that if a person who works as a porn actress and prostitution puts out polls on Twitter, the population of people who answer those polls will consist of people who follow a porn actress and prostitute on Twitter, but why does that affect the quality of the data? How can you evaluate whether someone counts as a "gooner" or not based on whether they follow a specific person on Twitter or answer a poll about sex?
    - Drupon 10mo ago
      >but why does that affect the quality of the data If I poll only insurance company executives on whether the country should do away with private insurance and switch to universal healthcare, I haven't really done anything "data driven", have I? Taking a fat shit in my toilet "generates data", but I wouldn't call that visit to my bathroom "data driven", would I? Collecting sex poll responses from people who follow porn stars who specialize in rape and similar fantasy porn does not collect any data except what extreme porn consumers think about sexuality, which is of little use to making generalizations. >How can you evaluate whether someone counts as a "gooner" or not based on whether they follow a specific person on Twitter or answer a poll about sex? Following porn stars is absolutely gooner behavior, so yes, it makes a person a gooner.

JasonADrury 10mo ago

Damn, that's a damning screenshot from the cop forum https://i0.wp.com/knowingless.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/image-6.png?ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/knowingless.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10... >As an aside, for as long as my fake escort page was up, I was getting text messages to the GV number from guys in this other state trying to set up dates. would run their phone numbers and find out who they were, it was amazing how much some of them stood to lose if they were caught. It's incredible to see cops just openly bragging about abusing the access they have.

immibis 10mo ago
[flagged]
- Gud 10mo ago
  I don't know who these "people" are, but it's logical that people who have a dislike for police would call them bastards, no matter if the police are bastards or not...
  - NoGravitas 10mo ago
    Yeah, but you don't see anyone saying all EMTs are bastards.
isolli 10mo ago
What does BP mean, in the context of the screenshot?
- JasonADrury 10mo ago
  backpage.com
- dzmien 10mo ago
  BP stands for Backpage, a now defunct online classifieds site, which was utilized by sex workers of all kinds in its heyday.

Sam6late 10mo ago

Which professions are similar on mileage here? I think Chappelle was spot on, when he used the book ‘The Story of My Life by Iceberg Slim’ to confront the entertainment industry highlighting a concept from the book regarding "mileage on a hoe" (prostitute). He explains that a pimp understands there is a finite amount of "bad things" or work a person can endure before they "lose it" or break down.

isolli 10mo ago

Previously discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28924751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28924751

waffleiron 10mo ago
I know we are currently very early in the comment section, but I cant help compare and notice the shift in tone and response.
- red-iron-pine 10mo ago
  bots exist to poison discourse, and they work here too

comrade1234 10mo ago

She's not making $1200/hr. Total b.s.

JasonADrury 10mo ago
Why wouldn't she? That's hardly crazy for any bigger city, and she's got a massive online following. Even if she looks a bit more plain than the average girl charging that much, there's a plenty of customers who want just that and her platform is massive.
greggsy 10mo ago
I know literally nothing about the financial aspects of the industry. Can you expand the on that?
- JasonADrury 10mo ago
  GP seems to live in a small European city with a pretty small market for this stuff. I seriously doubt there are any Zurich-based escorts earning $1200 hour. In London anything between 200 and 1000GBP per hour is completely ordinary, there will not even necessarily be a strong correlation between pricing and the quality of service. It is not super unusual to see people charging more than 1000GBP/h either. There's a huge discovery problem in the prostitution market, it's really hard for a customer to differentiate between providers without actually visiting them. In many places it's hard to find useful reviews, so you're stuck choosing a provider based on heavily photoshopped photos and hoping for the best. Charging more is probably a good strategy to differentiate yourself.
isolli 10mo ago
Sounds normal to me... see Eliot Spitzer [0]: > $4,300 is not an altogether alarming sum of money in the high-end sex market > In New York, it’s not hard to find sex workers who charge $10,000 per “session,” which can last for 15 minutes or two hours. [0] https://slate.com/business/2008/03/did-eliot-spitzer-get-caught-because-he-didn-t-spend-enough-on-prostitutes.html https://slate.com/business/2008/03/did-eliot-spitzer-get-cau...

my_throwaway23 10mo ago

I'm not sure how to begin to describe the feeling of reading an analytical take on working as an escort. Weird. Side note: Every single AMA/QA with a prostitute I've seen I've posted a question I'm anxious to know the answer to, but my question has consistently not received any reply. In essence; Every single job I've ever had has left me with a little bit of muscle memory - a key combination here, a routine there. When working as a prostitute, what are the small little things you're left with that might stay with you for quite a bit after your... career has moved on? Alas, I suspect there's no easy answer to it, considering, well...

JasonADrury 10mo ago
I'm not a prostitute, but I'd guess you'll develop muscle memory for the condoms. Sure, you can get better at sex too, but it's going to be difficult to put most of those lessons into words. As a woman, you're likely to end up learning a lot of things about personal hygiene that'll stay with you.

hinata08 10mo ago

Why was this flagged ? Isn't making 1200$/h while being self employed the goal for HNers ? Isn't HN supposed to be open minded ? This is the most HN post we saw ou there in a while. As if boasting how code was improved at GAFAMs despite actually thought challenging social implications, reduced wages and layoffs was the only point of this board.

GeoAtreides 10mo ago
It's obvious the flagging system is not working anymore, and still the mods are not doing anything
- dang 10mo ago
  I addressed this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46378818 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46378818, albeit more in the context of political stories—but I think the same point applies here too. If you wouldn't mind reading that and letting me know if you still have a question that isn't answered there, I'd be interested in hearing what it is.
  - hinata08 10mo ago
    Thank you so much for reviewing flagged content and giving a second chance to this post As a rare contributor to these sites, I often feel blunt and unbalanced when some old users just flag your work made with good intents so that it vanishes, without taking any time to even comment why, fix it, or think about prejudices for the platform (which it not just their bubble) and users. My first new page on wikipedia was immediately marked for deletion as some random user who wouldn't bother message me, reference it on related articles or contribute just flagged it for being orphaned and bad. I won't bother creating pages anymore. (While OSM has forums to discuss things and is overly chill about learning to contribute on the actual map) I will not complain that this happens often on HN as it does not. Most users are kind and curious. * Flags aren't overwhelmingly abused. * However, this particular story is about sex workers who opened up, giving rare accounts that you won't find anywhere in a way that not only agrees to guidelines but looks like any popular story here. Sex workers are often discriminated against in a lot of places. Flagging this story could warn that HN is public places and everyone isn't that safe or open minded. Any actual discussion shouldn't be trapped in private Discord servers, this site should remain the place to challenge your technical, sociological and business related perspectives.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]