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More and more evidence that the a-holes with spreadsheets are taking over at Apple and they’re completely devoid of any ideas on the software side. I heard som
by atonse 9mo ago
More and more evidence that the a-holes with spreadsheets are taking over at Apple and they’re completely devoid of any ideas on the software side.
I heard someone randomly say that they should replace Tim Cook with Scott Forstall. I chuckled at the idea but this might be a great idea.
Apple is having its Ballmer moment. Google did too before AI lit the fire under their feet.
Who is going to be Apple’s next Nadella? Steve Jobs was the original.
- BanAntiVaxxers 9mo agoHas Nadella had one original thought? He simply passes through whatever the board orders.
- chroma205 9mo ago> Has Nadella had one original thought? He simply passes through whatever the board orders. No. But for mega-tech CEO salary, I’d probably do exactly the same.
- coliveira 9mo agoIt takes a person with massive personality disorder to do this kind of stuff. I'm glad I'm not doing it, whatever the amounts of money in play.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- drecked 9mo agoNadella turned Microsoft completely around. Before Nadella, for about 2 decades, Microsoft’s entire purpose seemed to be to stuff Windows into everything. Changing this was a massive undertaking that was largely unimaginable within MS. Unfortunately now under Nadella AI is taking the role Windows used to play, but even there he understood the importance of AI before most of his competitors did which is what allowed Microsoft to gain such a substantial footing in OpenAI.
- pjmlp 9mo agoAnd in the process alieanted most of the Windows developers, only game devs care (hence Proton), and now it is a QA mess. Also it is quite clear for us old timers, that since the AI obssession started in Redmond, the old rotten Microsoft culture is back, it probably never left but it was tamed in the early Satya years.
- happymellon 9mo agoDoes he? Remember Nadella doesn't read emails (he gets AI to summarise them all), he doesn't pay attention in meetings (he claims to get the minutes and then AI summerise them), what makes you think he even really knows the nuances of what the board want?
- yomismoaqui 9mo agoCan we use "ensheetification" to describe this phenomeon? (sure I'm not the first to use this word)
- GrowingSideways 9mo agoWhat does it imply that the other term does not? Enshitification is the inevitable result of the tendency of profit to revert to zero. This is basic schumpeter (not to mention marx).
- 6510 9mo agoOne is the result the other is the process.
- GrowingSideways 9mo agoOk, but what is the distinction between the two terms?
- kridsdale1 9mo agoIt happens because Data People look at Numbers on Sheets and justify business decisions based on what happens with the numbers. The alternative business decision making framework is the Jobs method: Do the thing that you know is good, because of your pure human sentiment.
- nix0n 9mo agoEnshittification puts the focus on the users of the product as the product gets worse. Ensheetification puts the focus on what's happening within the business to cause this.
- imagetic 9mo agohttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/offline-with-jon-favreau/id1610392666?i=1000745500800 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/offline-with-jon-favre...
- lapcat 9mo agoWhat has Nadella done for Windows users? It appears to me that Windows is becoming every bit as enshittified as macOS, if not more so. And isn't Microsoft experimenting with advertisements in Windows?
- nikitaga 9mo agoHow is MacOS as enshittified as Windows? It doesn't have ads, doesn't push AI on you, their online services are trivial to ignore once and never think about again, etc. I haven't tried Tahoe, and sure, its new glass UI is shit, but merely incompetent UI design is not "enshittification" and is not in any way equivalent to what Microsoft does in Windows.
- runjake 9mo agoI've been getting intrusive first-party ads in Apple's OSes for at least the past 3 major OS releases. News+, Fitness+, Music, Apple TV+, etc etc.
- al_borland 9mo agoNews+ also has a ton of articles behind paywalls, even if paying for the premium version. It’s an ugly experience, probably the worst one.
- nikitaga 9mo agoSurely we can distinguish MacOS – the operating system – from the online services provided by Apple that happen to have a native app? If you are choosing to use Apple online services, sure, you'll get upsells I guess, as with any other online service. I don't use any of Apple's online services, and never see those ads.
- madeofpalk 9mo agomacOS absolutely, definitely, 100% has ads. Buy a new Apple Watch and notice that the settings app with have a [1] badge trying to upsell you to buy AppleCare+. They obscure dismissing these by clicking the "Add AppleCare Coverage" button and then having a button that says actually no.
- iwontberude 9mo agoForstall was an enshittefier too. Apple Maps was exactly what we are talking about.
- coldtea 9mo agoStrange take. Apple Maps was a new product. It's expected it would be behind Google Maps, maybe even forever given all the headstart and resources Google gives it. In any case, Apple Maps (a NEW then product, in an entirely new space for Apple) being bad, is not at all related to "enshittification". Apple Maps is absolutely the wrong thing to judge Forstall on. Not to mention that its main problem is coverage i.e. data quality. Regarding software engineering it's fine, even better than Google Maps in lots of aspects.
- atonse 9mo agoApple Maps from day one was skating to where the puck was going to be. They had vector based maps when that stuff was brand new. Possibly before Google deployed it widespread (but I'm not sure on this fact). But the problem with Apple Maps was easy to see (and can only be fixex over time)... data. Google and others had a decade+ head start on Apple when it came to collecting data for maps. Judge Apple Maps 5 years old vs Google Maps 5 years old. Not Apple Maps brand new vs Google Maps 10 years later. Forstall is the one that pushed to make iOS based on macOS/Unix. He was definitely a lightning rod but had product sense.
- krackers 9mo agoFrom my reading, Forstall was one of the few who actually refused to partake in performative corporate culture, and decided to quit rather than bend over >when Apple issued a formal apology for the errors in Maps, Forstall refused to sign it It's obvious that apple maps would never be able to be a perfect replacement for google maps at launch, and it's possible Forstall in fact voiced these exact concerns but was overruled before launch, only to then be used as cannon fodder when he turned out to be right. Given all the clearly empty corporate-style "we take full responsibility" stuff you see today, someone actually _refusing_ to play those games when it wasn't his fault is a very positive sign for authenticity. (He also did work on Siri, but given that he was booted right after its launch, I don't think it's fair to attribute their present incompetence on that front to him.)
- master_crab 9mo agoI heard someone randomly say that they should replace Tim Cook with Scott Forstall. I chuckled at the idea but this might be a great idea. Fadell might also be a good choice. Either way it should be someone currently outside Apple. The company needs an external eye to review its processes and cruft that built up under Cook (nothing negative against the guy, but what worked 5-10 years ago won’t necessarily work 5-10 years down the road).
- asadotzler 9mo agoThat is what's expected when you put a glorified accountant in charge and he decides Wall St. is the real customer and the stock price is the real product and users and consumer technology are an afterthought.
- bee_rider 9mo agoHe’s been in charge for a while, even during some good times. I dunno. It definitely seems like the company is trending in a bad direction, though—maybe he was able to extrapolate from the good points well enough. But now that they are far past those points, the higher order terms are going bad…
- valleyer 9mo agoBig ships are hard to turn, even in the backwards direction.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- ragazzina 9mo ago> completely devoid of any ideas on the software side. Maybe I’m too old, but if Apple fixed every single bug and added absolutely zero features until the day of my death, I would still be a satisfied customer. The problem is not lack of innovation, the problem is that everything barely works.
- celsius1414 9mo agoDoing your job and doing your job well are two different things, of course. The innovation is going to have to be in how to return to the latter when they’ve lost their way. Or, perhaps more accurately, been led astray by conflicting priorities. They’ve done it recently with their hardware. Past time for the other side of the house to refocus.
- asdff 9mo agoI'm still waiting on the iphone to get the macbook pro treatment: a return to thickness, more ports, and of course touchID.
- latexr 9mo agoThere are obvious exceptions, like for example updating certificates, but otherwise I’m with you. Or I was, for many years, until the release of Liquid Glass. Now fixing bugs is no longer enough, the OS has become an abomination. I’ll avoid “upgrading” for as long as possible, then I’ll probably have to abandon Apple platforms forever.
- KellyCriterion 9mo agoGoogle was killed when Pichai took over - in his first speech, he said: Everything is AI now. From moment on, Google search tanked: from a userexperience perspective and a useracquisition-vehicle perspective. Lots of companies could have been built only Google worked 15years ago the way that Google did work. Lots of companies today do not have the same lane anymore, so spending more and more on advertising....
- downrightmike 9mo agoa-holes with spreadsheets = MBA Same thing that killed Intel, Microslop, pretty much every american company.
- user205738 9mo agoThe MBA was designed for those who did not want to study or could not master economics.(/jk or isn't)
- rchaud 9mo agoSo what if it is? A Master's in Economics gets you diddly squat in the job market whereas an MBA opens doors everywhere. You could get a PhD in Economics and still only work at a university, your country's central bank or at a stretch, the IMF or the World Bank, which are hardly held up as the pinnacle of professional development. And even then they'd only take you if you studied monetary economics.
- Dylan16807 9mo agoThey're not criticizing someone for seeing the appeal of an MBA, they're criticizing that an MBA has those factors in the first place. It shouldn't be the degree you pick to open doors.
- k2enemy 9mo agoI could not agree more. It probably doesn't help that I just spend an hour trying to figure out how to update to 18.7.3 on my iphone. It turns out you can't. The only way to get security updates now is to upgrade to iOS 26. Apple no longer supports security updates to old major versions if the device is capable of running the new major release. Apple is no longer making choices that benefit customers, but ones that benefit project managers.
- MaysonL 9mo ago18.7.3 is still available for download via a paid developer account, not sure about a free one.
- k2enemy 9mo agoThanks, I gave it a try. I see the download, but it isn't signed for newer iphones. Only ones that don't support iOS 26. So frustrating. I'm on a 12 mini and people report that 26 runs horribly on it.
- asdff 9mo agoWow, I just checked and looks like I'm stuck on 18.7 for the rest of the life of this iPhone I guess. That being said it looks like I can opt into ios 18 beta. I wonder if that would include security patches? Actually maybe I don't want security patches. It would be nice to have a jailbroken iphone again one day...
- kridsdale1 9mo agoIt won’t.
- gverrilla 9mo agoIf in the past it has, it was precisely to reach the present situation. It's naive to expect these companies to be pro-costumers. They would rape your mother if they could - the only reason they don't is because that would make you not buy their product and falsehoods.
- edm0nd 9mo agoimo the Apple that we all grew to love or hate, died when Jobs died. Its been nothing but a shell of itself since.
- gtsop 9mo ago[dead]
- happymellon 9mo ago> Who is going to be Apple’s next Nadella? Steve Jobs was the original. Nadella is a budget Larry Ellison.
- x0x0 9mo ago> they’re completely devoid of any ideas on the software side. Nah, they're full of ideas. Mostly around sucking out every dollar from anyone foolish enough to build on their OS. They've seen which way the wind is blowing and their extortionate payment processing fees are going to get limited by most governments. The plan flatly is to extort companies for money in the app store to make up for it. eg allowing companies to advertise against other companies' names: just like google, they plan to extort companies on navigation (ie direct product/company name) queries.
- leokennis 9mo agoI have slowly but steadily made myself not rely on Apple anymore: files moved to NextCloud, mail and calendars moved to Fastmail, etc. Platform agnostic choices, because clearly Apple is not to be trusted anymore as the guardian of good taste, and also not anymore as the guardian of acceptable morals (i.e. the insane sucking up to the Great Orange leader). There are still some services I need to move (mainly, music and reminders) but once achieved I am ready to jump to another platform without it impacting my daily life.
- KolibriFly 9mo agoForstall is an interesting thought experiment, but probably pure nostalgia
- GuB-42 9mo agoI think you are giving executives too much credit. All the people you cited are just business managers. Multi-billion dollar public companies are not startups, decisions are the result of comities, shareholder meetings, and consequences of choices made a decade later. Who is at the head now matters, but to a limited extent. Steve Jobs may be an exception, but mostly because he was a founder, so he led the company when it was small enough to support a true dictator. As for Ballmer vs Nadella, what did Microsoft do under Nadella that wasn't started under Ballmer? The big things: 365 and Azure were both started under Ballmer. Bing, the only real competitor to Google search, which is also profitable, was made under Ballmer too. Essentially, Nadella continued Ballmer's job, as expected from a MBA CEO to another MBA CEO. The shift from Windows-first to cloud-first was already in the making when Nadella took over.