5 ms·

I'll share my opposing view point. Whilst Maccabi fans may contain hooligans, that's not really surprising for football fans. Fans travelling within Europe caus

I'll share my opposing view point. Whilst Maccabi fans may contain hooligans, that's not really surprising for football fans. Fans travelling within Europe cause trouble all the time. What is different, is that Maccabi fans were blocked from attending by the police/council when no other sets of fans are given the same treatment. Secondly, the police were aware of plans within the Birmingham Muslim community to attack said fans. Instead of coming down on these people planning violence, they decided to avoid the situation entirely. Furthermore, they ignored evidence from the Amsterdam authorities who haven't said the Maccabi fans were as riotous as you claim. Using AI hallucinations was just the cherry on the cake.

dundarious 9mo ago
> when no other sets of fans are given the same treatment This treatment is often doled out to clubs' fans. Even in Tel Aviv.
- tome 9mo ago
  > > when no other sets of fans are given the same treatment > This treatment is often doled out to clubs' fans. Even in Tel Aviv. Sorry, what treatment are you talking about exactly? Your parent seems to be referring to the treatment of being "blocked from attending by the police/council". Is that what you mean is often doled out to clubs/fans?
  - dundarious 9mo ago
    Yes, that's the precise type of treatment I'm talking about: prevented from attending a football game due to security concerns or penalty for poor behavior.
    - tome 9mo ago
      Individual fans are frequently banned. How many other occasions can you name where no away fans were permitted at a game?
      - dundarious 9mo ago
        https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/15326456/rangers-shock-away-fan-ban-uefa/ https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/15326456/rangers-shoc... It happens often enough in European football. Search "away fans ban uefa -maccabi" online. You can also look at official UEFA sites, but they often list partial bans (e.g., ban from a particular section of the stadium) in a way that I can't distinguish from complete bans. https://www.uefa.com/running-competitions/disciplinary/stadium-bans/ https://www.uefa.com/running-competitions/disciplinary/stadi...
        tome 9mo ago
        According to the UEFA website you linked it looks like BSC Young Boys were the only other club to face a ban on Europa League away fans in 2025. Maccabi Tel Aviv doesn't appear there, of course, since despite UEFA having rules and punishments against fan violence, they didn't consider it appropriate to punish Maccabi. So I wonder how frequently a team is forbidden from taking away fans by the local police, despite not being sanctioned by UEFA.
        dundarious 9mo ago
        The Tel Aviv police did see fit to call off a Maccabi game about 2 weeks after this furore. Admittedly, because of violence on the morning of the game, not because of concerns well in advance, but I think it's quite reasonable to say that such a prohibition is not some kind of outrageous outlier. My general point is, if you think the surface level details of this case are indication of some outrageous singling out of Maccabi fans, then I think that's mostly due to ignorance (in the non-derogatory sense of lack of familiarity). If you want to debate the details, that's a fine thing to do, and I'm aware of lots of those details too and would still generally find it quite plausible to desire an away fans ban for Maccabi in that case, but that's not the point I'm trying to make on HN right now.
        tome 9mo ago
        > The Tel Aviv police did see fit to call off a Maccabi game about 2 weeks after this furore I think you mean the match against Hapoel Tel Aviv, which happened before this furore. The Tel Aviv police naturally know and expect that there is often unrest at a derby match, let alone a derby match between teams who share a stadium. But why would there be particular reason to assume that there would be unrest at a match between fans from Tel Aviv and Birmingham who have no particular relation to each other? And even if there was, why not cancel the match or play it behind closed doors? Why punish Maccabi specifically?
pydry 9mo ago
They were banned because during a match in Amsterdam they shouted racist abuse, sang racist songs, did plenty of vandalism, threw an innocent member of the public into a river and assaulted Muslim taxi drivers. Moreover, most of them have military training which makes the racist abuse, vandalism and assault that much more terrifying. If an antisemitic football team was half that bad they'd be hauled off to prison never mind banned from football matches.
- tome 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - pydry 9mo ago
    The level of racist violence we saw in Amsterdam is also quite rare. It used to be more common in the 90s iirc.
    - tome 9mo ago
      Are you sure? For example, you said Maccabi Tel Aviv fans > threw an innocent member of the public into a river whereas the BBC says > It was, in fact, a Maccabi fan who was found in the river https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2xnzye903o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2xnzye903o
  - bhouston 9mo ago
    > Individuals are often banned from football matches. Banning a team from bringing any supporters is rare. Completely wrong - here is a list of recent stadium bans for various football fans: https://www.uefa.com/running-competitions/disciplinary/stadium-bans/ https://www.uefa.com/running-competitions/disciplinary/stadi...
    - tome 9mo ago
      That list confirms that during 2025 there was one incidence of UEFA banning a Europa League team from bringing fans. There are nearly 200 matches in one season of Europa League, so it's rare, I think.
g8oz 9mo ago
Maccabee fans in Amsterdam - indulged in racist chants like "Death to Arabs" and "There are no more babies in Gaza" (because they're dead) - Beat an Arab taxi driver - Tore a Palestinian flag from a woman's balcony and attempted to break in to the apartment. After they FAFOd and got their asses handed to them the media treated them like the second coming of Anne Frank. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2024_Amsterdam_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2024_Amsterdam_riots. The "media reporting" section of the article is particularly illuminating - a Zionist influence operation was in full swing afterwards to minimize the bad behavior of the Israeli fans. Furthermore Maccabee fans have a reputation for hooliganism in Israel itself. So the West Midlands assessment was eminently reasonable. The manufactured storm over the decision again showcases a broader pattern of insidious Zionist influence over Western institutions. The decision was lawyered to death in a manner only Israelis get the benefit of.
- flooow 9mo ago
  Thank you for actually reading the article. I knew I would get many responses parroting the official narrative because that's what we're being spoonfed, but I'm glad some people are interested in understanding what really happened.
- amiga386 9mo ago
  You kinda forgot to mention the organised pro-Palestinian rioters, so let's add them back into your narrative. https://news.sky.com/story/statement-by-the-amsterdam-police-27-november-2025-13477310 https://news.sky.com/story/statement-by-the-amsterdam-police... > The Amsterdam police made clear that among Maccabi supporters there were 500-800 ultras visiting the city in November 2024. Like other European ultra groups, these fans were organised and, on some occasions, seemed willing to fight. The Amsterdam police also stated that a lot of disorder in those days were the result of different groups provoking each other. > At the same time, another development takes place - small groups of pro-Palestinian rioters actively search for individuals they perceive as Israeli, Jewish or Maccabi supporters. At 23:55pm, the first 'flash' attacks on Maccabi supporters begin at Dam Square. Several dozen violent incidents in the city centre follow. The pro-Palestinian rioters use various methods to reach their victims. Some move on foot, others use scooters or taxis to move quickly through the city. This makes it difficult for the police to intervene quickly and effectively. This proves to be a fundamentally different form of violence compared to earlier situations, which involved clashes between groups facing each other. From 1:24am onward, reports of attacks decrease, but fear among Jewish residents of Amsterdam and Israeli tourists remains high. Multiple reports come in of people feeling unsafe and not daring to leave their hotels. The Macabbi ultras were violent and racist hooligans, as you said. But you can't excuse or leave out the behaviour of their opponents who went on a "Jew hunt" (their words!) and attacked random Jews or Israelis, unaffiliated with the football hooligans. From your wiki link: > Most of the people involved in the attacks on Maccabi fans were taxi drivers and youths on scooters, So yes, if the people attacking the Maccabi fans are taxi drivers, yes, I'd expect to see taxi drivers getting beaten up right back. > In the nights following the attacks, people thought to be Jewish continued to be targeted, including being forced out of taxis and ordered to show their passports to check if they were Israeli. Didn't feel the need to mention this? Oh, sorry, random people being forced out of taxis to check if they're Israeli is just an overstatement by the media, "the second coming of Anne Frank", I forgot.
Matl 9mo ago
OP is sharing facts, not 'view points'.

dundarious 9mo ago

> when no other sets of fans are given the same treatment This treatment is often doled out to clubs' fans. Even in Tel Aviv.

tome 9mo ago
> > when no other sets of fans are given the same treatment > This treatment is often doled out to clubs' fans. Even in Tel Aviv. Sorry, what treatment are you talking about exactly? Your parent seems to be referring to the treatment of being "blocked from attending by the police/council". Is that what you mean is often doled out to clubs/fans?
- dundarious 9mo ago
  Yes, that's the precise type of treatment I'm talking about: prevented from attending a football game due to security concerns or penalty for poor behavior.
  - tome 9mo ago
    Individual fans are frequently banned. How many other occasions can you name where no away fans were permitted at a game?
    - dundarious 9mo ago
      https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/15326456/rangers-shock-away-fan-ban-uefa/ https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/15326456/rangers-shoc... It happens often enough in European football. Search "away fans ban uefa -maccabi" online. You can also look at official UEFA sites, but they often list partial bans (e.g., ban from a particular section of the stadium) in a way that I can't distinguish from complete bans. https://www.uefa.com/running-competitions/disciplinary/stadium-bans/ https://www.uefa.com/running-competitions/disciplinary/stadi...
      - tome 9mo ago
        According to the UEFA website you linked it looks like BSC Young Boys were the only other club to face a ban on Europa League away fans in 2025. Maccabi Tel Aviv doesn't appear there, of course, since despite UEFA having rules and punishments against fan violence, they didn't consider it appropriate to punish Maccabi. So I wonder how frequently a team is forbidden from taking away fans by the local police, despite not being sanctioned by UEFA.
        dundarious 9mo ago
        The Tel Aviv police did see fit to call off a Maccabi game about 2 weeks after this furore. Admittedly, because of violence on the morning of the game, not because of concerns well in advance, but I think it's quite reasonable to say that such a prohibition is not some kind of outrageous outlier. My general point is, if you think the surface level details of this case are indication of some outrageous singling out of Maccabi fans, then I think that's mostly due to ignorance (in the non-derogatory sense of lack of familiarity). If you want to debate the details, that's a fine thing to do, and I'm aware of lots of those details too and would still generally find it quite plausible to desire an away fans ban for Maccabi in that case, but that's not the point I'm trying to make on HN right now.
        tome 9mo ago
        > The Tel Aviv police did see fit to call off a Maccabi game about 2 weeks after this furore I think you mean the match against Hapoel Tel Aviv, which happened before this furore. The Tel Aviv police naturally know and expect that there is often unrest at a derby match, let alone a derby match between teams who share a stadium. But why would there be particular reason to assume that there would be unrest at a match between fans from Tel Aviv and Birmingham who have no particular relation to each other? And even if there was, why not cancel the match or play it behind closed doors? Why punish Maccabi specifically?

pydry 9mo ago

They were banned because during a match in Amsterdam they shouted racist abuse, sang racist songs, did plenty of vandalism, threw an innocent member of the public into a river and assaulted Muslim taxi drivers. Moreover, most of them have military training which makes the racist abuse, vandalism and assault that much more terrifying. If an antisemitic football team was half that bad they'd be hauled off to prison never mind banned from football matches.

tome 9mo ago
[flagged]
- pydry 9mo ago
  The level of racist violence we saw in Amsterdam is also quite rare. It used to be more common in the 90s iirc.
  - tome 9mo ago
    Are you sure? For example, you said Maccabi Tel Aviv fans > threw an innocent member of the public into a river whereas the BBC says > It was, in fact, a Maccabi fan who was found in the river https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2xnzye903o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2xnzye903o
- bhouston 9mo ago
  > Individuals are often banned from football matches. Banning a team from bringing any supporters is rare. Completely wrong - here is a list of recent stadium bans for various football fans: https://www.uefa.com/running-competitions/disciplinary/stadium-bans/ https://www.uefa.com/running-competitions/disciplinary/stadi...
  - tome 9mo ago
    That list confirms that during 2025 there was one incidence of UEFA banning a Europa League team from bringing fans. There are nearly 200 matches in one season of Europa League, so it's rare, I think.

g8oz 9mo ago

Maccabee fans in Amsterdam - indulged in racist chants like "Death to Arabs" and "There are no more babies in Gaza" (because they're dead) - Beat an Arab taxi driver - Tore a Palestinian flag from a woman's balcony and attempted to break in to the apartment. After they FAFOd and got their asses handed to them the media treated them like the second coming of Anne Frank. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2024_Amsterdam_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2024_Amsterdam_riots. The "media reporting" section of the article is particularly illuminating - a Zionist influence operation was in full swing afterwards to minimize the bad behavior of the Israeli fans. Furthermore Maccabee fans have a reputation for hooliganism in Israel itself. So the West Midlands assessment was eminently reasonable. The manufactured storm over the decision again showcases a broader pattern of insidious Zionist influence over Western institutions. The decision was lawyered to death in a manner only Israelis get the benefit of.

flooow 9mo ago
Thank you for actually reading the article. I knew I would get many responses parroting the official narrative because that's what we're being spoonfed, but I'm glad some people are interested in understanding what really happened.
amiga386 9mo ago
You kinda forgot to mention the organised pro-Palestinian rioters, so let's add them back into your narrative. https://news.sky.com/story/statement-by-the-amsterdam-police-27-november-2025-13477310 https://news.sky.com/story/statement-by-the-amsterdam-police... > The Amsterdam police made clear that among Maccabi supporters there were 500-800 ultras visiting the city in November 2024. Like other European ultra groups, these fans were organised and, on some occasions, seemed willing to fight. The Amsterdam police also stated that a lot of disorder in those days were the result of different groups provoking each other. > At the same time, another development takes place - small groups of pro-Palestinian rioters actively search for individuals they perceive as Israeli, Jewish or Maccabi supporters. At 23:55pm, the first 'flash' attacks on Maccabi supporters begin at Dam Square. Several dozen violent incidents in the city centre follow. The pro-Palestinian rioters use various methods to reach their victims. Some move on foot, others use scooters or taxis to move quickly through the city. This makes it difficult for the police to intervene quickly and effectively. This proves to be a fundamentally different form of violence compared to earlier situations, which involved clashes between groups facing each other. From 1:24am onward, reports of attacks decrease, but fear among Jewish residents of Amsterdam and Israeli tourists remains high. Multiple reports come in of people feeling unsafe and not daring to leave their hotels. The Macabbi ultras were violent and racist hooligans, as you said. But you can't excuse or leave out the behaviour of their opponents who went on a "Jew hunt" (their words!) and attacked random Jews or Israelis, unaffiliated with the football hooligans. From your wiki link: > Most of the people involved in the attacks on Maccabi fans were taxi drivers and youths on scooters, So yes, if the people attacking the Maccabi fans are taxi drivers, yes, I'd expect to see taxi drivers getting beaten up right back. > In the nights following the attacks, people thought to be Jewish continued to be targeted, including being forced out of taxis and ordered to show their passports to check if they were Israeli. Didn't feel the need to mention this? Oh, sorry, random people being forced out of taxis to check if they're Israeli is just an overstatement by the media, "the second coming of Anne Frank", I forgot.

Matl 9mo ago

OP is sharing facts, not 'view points'.