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Texas police invested in phone-tracking software and won’t say how it’s used
- nobody9999 9mo agoTitle too long for submission. Original title: Texas Police Invested Millions in a Shadowy Phone-Tracking Software. They Won’t Say How They’ve Used It.
- JumpCrisscross 9mo agoI hate the concept. But this is not the right case to test the tool against.
- nobody9999 9mo ago>I hate the concept. But this is not the right case to test the tool against. To which case are you referring? TFA doesn't appear to refer to any ongoing litigation associated with the "Tangles" software. Or are you referring to warrantless geo-fence tracking as a poor use case for the software?
- nilamo 9mo agoTracking the population without cause is never the right use case for anything.
- nobody9999 9mo ago>Tracking the population without cause is never the right use case for anything. Agreed. Which is why I submitted this in the first place. But AFAICT, it's orthogonal to GP's comment. Or not. Which is why I asked for clarification.
- asdff 9mo agoTransit and traffic planners would be foaming at the mouth for real commute data like this instead of just fixed point count data.
- greyface- 9mo agoTransit fare collection systems in many metros already log tap on / tap off location data and make it accessible to planners (and police).
- bethekidyouwant 9mo agoGoogle has it
- gruez 9mo agoAFAIK they're moving their stuff to be on device https://www.reddit.com/r/GoogleMaps/comments/1diivt3/megathread_google_maps_timeline_moving_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GoogleMaps/comments/1diivt3/megathr...
- SlightlyLeftPad 9mo agoTrust is really low that this will not be shadow-mined anyway. There’s far too much money to be made. This reads like greenwashing to me. Makes someone on the board feel good but in reality, fingerprinting and location data is still completely identifiable.
- JumpCrisscross 9mo ago> which case are you referring? The example given at the top of the article. We want Tangle or whatever used idiotically to strike down its use in federal court.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- 1a527dd5 9mo agoSounds a lot like 'parallel construction'.
- plagiarist 9mo agoIt turns out it's actually fine if your data is on offer to the government from a third party. The Constitution was meant to be permanently fixed and extremely literal about only the technology available from centuries ago, it was not meant to describe general concepts nor intended to be updated to ensure those same rights are retained along with changes in society.
- sieabahlpark 9mo ago[dead]
- gruez 9mo ago>The Constitution was meant to be permanently fixed and extremely literal about only the technology available from centuries ago, it was not meant to describe general concepts nor intended to be updated to ensure those same rights are retained along with changes in society. /s? I can't tell because people unironically use the same reasoning to make the "2nd amendment only apply to muskets" argument.
- collingreen 9mo agoThat isn't the muskets version of that argument I have heard. The version I've heard is that the firearm technology when the second amendment was ratified was very different than today and that makes it worth evaluating if we want to amend it again. Similarly the military landscape looks very different as well such that there's a very different risk of foreign armies taking ground and citizens everywhere needing to be ready to hold ground until the more official military forces can arrive. If we want to get really pedantic about 2A where are the well regulated militias? Even if someone really is saying the thing you're claiming, 2A doesn't mention muskets at all or any other specific technology so that would be a really dumb thing for those people to say.
- jadenpeterson 9mo agoWhy are they comfortable saying this? > Generally, Boyd said his office uses the software to find “avenues for obtaining probable cause” or “to verify reasonable suspicion that you already have”—not as a basis by itself to make arrests. As if that's not a massive violation of our rights in and of itself. This is my fundamental problem with the internet. As much as stories like these gain traction, as many millions of redditors protest these increasingly common stories (for example, the suspicious nature of Luigi Mangione being 'reported' in that McDonalds), nothing will change. Perhaps this is the part of the criminal justice system I am most suspect of. Is this what happens in a country with less regulation?
- titanomachy 9mo agoWas that suspicious? I thought his face was plastered all over the news.
- topspin 9mo ago> Why are they comfortable saying this? They receive recognition for the results. Phone data was used in a large fraction of the cases against rioters in the 2021 capital attack. The Powers That Be were grateful that law enforcement were able to use phone data to either initially identify attackers or corroborate other evidence, and ultimately put people in prison. The justice system makes cases with this every day, and the victims of criminals are thankful for these results.
- wavefunction 9mo agoappeal to emotion
- prophesi 9mo agoI've heard a lot more recognition for Apple refusing to comply with unlocking iPhones over the years than any of these other cases.
- 3form 9mo agoThis might just be the bias of the groups you are in (myself included).
- therobots927 9mo agoWe’re all just characters in a sim game played by the rich and powerful. Now it’s 24 / 7 surveillance. Eventually it will be 24 / 7 control.
- HNisCIS 9mo agoThe race is between the rich trying to achieve a level of surveillance based omnipotence such that rebellion/revolution/dissent/protest/etc are fundamentally impossible...and the US populace gaining class consciousness. I don't have high hopes for the second one winning. I want people to think about that for a second though. Imagine in a decade cops have such a technological edge in both surveillance and force that you cannot even begin to protest billionaires enslaving you let alone stage a political revolution.
- therobots927 9mo agoYou get it. I’m also concerned that we’re past the point of no return.
- OGEnthusiast 9mo agoWe're already past the point of no return IMO. It's why people are having fewer kids.
- DaSHacka 9mo agoAnd in fact, it's possible the latter is a direct and explicitly desired outcome of the former
- parineum 9mo agoThey do surveys where they ask these questions. That's not a common answer.
- HNisCIS 9mo agoI personally don't think we are, a few hundred people were able to storm the capital, many were eventually arrested but if they had more numbers and pressed a coup wasn't off the table. The issue is the level of needed "right time, right place" is increasing and Americans are too comfortable right now to take the risks necessary.
- cluckindan 9mo agoYou remember those cookie notices that you clicked on? Whatever you ”chose” to click, this kinda thing is where your data ended up getting ”processed”, irrespective of your ”privacy choices”.
- kart23 9mo agothe example at the top of the article isn’t exactly the best example to show people why this software shouldn’t be allowed. they could go to the liquor store, and ask them to pull cameras, and with a warrant if needed. it just seems more powerful to say this software is useless and wasting taxpayer money. but also, who is supplying location data to tangles? saying the ‘dark web’ is not helpful or informational, and honestly if the cops are just buying location data there’s nothing illegal about the search, because it’s not a search. you willingly provided your location data to this company who is then selling it, your beef is with them to stop selling your data if it’s not in their privacy policy. it smells like they’re just using social media and claiming they have this huge database on peoples locations. this sounds like a huge nothing burger to me. basically: don’t use sketchy apps that sell your location to data brokers or just turn off your location data for that app. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/location-data-broker-gravy-analytics-was-seemingly-hacked-experts-say-rcna187038 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/location-data-broker-g...
- djeastm 9mo agoIf it's on the dark web isn't it also possible that it's hacked phone records? Seems like a nice way to bypass getting a warrant. Step 1, make sure hackers know you're in the market for phone company data. Step 2, hackers do their thing and sell it on the dark web. Step 3, police use intermediate tool like Tangles to "obtain probably cause" and "verify reasonable suspicion" based on the hacked records and focus their searches, all without any judge's say-so.
- kart23 9mo agodidn’t it say fresh receipt? how would tangles have live data from hacked phone records? also, yeah in that your phone company is at fault for violating your privacy. Agree that using hacked sources is unethical and shouldn’t be done, but is there an actual law against law enforcement using hacked data? reporters can legally publish hacked sources.
- artyom 9mo agoMy bet is they couldn't get past the InstallShield wizard.
- charcircuit 9mo agoThis is like asking Google why they banned your account for fraud. Secrecy is important for slowing down bad actors.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- amanaplanacanal 9mo agoTransparency is also important for slowing down bad government actors.
- thedangler 9mo agoIsn’t this type of software illegal? If I went to try and sell it , I’d be arrested.
- therobots927 9mo agoI highly doubt that…
- pnt12 9mo agoBut who's gonna arrest the police? Seems like more and more people are testing/stretching the limits of what's actually enforced. Similarly, hearing about the Eppstein files makes me sick: - deadlines? not met - limited redactions? full documents redacted - redactions explained? not at all
- cdrnsf 9mo ago[flagged]
- lingrush4 9mo ago[flagged]
- therobots927 9mo ago[flagged]
- an_guy 9mo ago[flagged]
- therobots927 9mo ago[flagged]
- deadbolt 9mo agoI've been robbed more frequently by the rich than the poor. Of course I'm only one person.
- tomhow 9mo agoPlease don't post flamebait on HN. The guidelines make it clear we're trying for something better here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- kylecazar 9mo agoIt isn't black and white. Deploy trust circumstantially.
- cdrnsf 9mo agoIt’s not safe to trust someone implicitly because they have a uniform and/or a badge.
- antidamage 9mo agoPre-crime: powered by Grok Analysis
- lingrush4 9mo agoYou have to love when the media describes something as "shadowy." They're not even trying to hide their bias.
- tclancy 9mo agoWhereas you’re happy to air yours. I guess that’s something.
- fenwick67 9mo agoOnce again, using a computer system to launder a conclusion someone has already made
- smashah 9mo agoOne day we will need to rip our freedoms back from these demons.
- nxobject 9mo agoDon’t tread on me, huh?
- 0xedd 9mo ago[dead]
- varispeed 9mo agoThis headline is unfortunate. It will just feed people who suffer from mental illness with believes "see, police can track my phone and listen to me". I am so tired of irresponsible media misrepresenting what article is about in such a way to gain clicks, without thinking of the suffering this might cause.
- rexpop 9mo agoThe exacerbation of schizophrenic symptoms is a problem that pales in comparison to the infringement of our civil rights.
- KoftaBob 9mo ago> Tangles scrapes information from the open, deep, and dark webs and is the premier product of Cobwebs Technologies, a cybersecurity company founded in 2014 by three former members of special units in the Israeli military. If I had a dime for every time a sketchy "cybersecurity"/surveillance software ended up being developed by an Israeli firm...
- botacode 9mo agoAn underappreciated point here is: fund/subscribe your local papers. They are willing to do work and investigations that national outlets just don't have the capacity or stomach for. The more concentrated/centralized journalism is the higher the risk it can get censored/leveraged.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- Revolution1120 9mo ago[dead]