6 ms·

> We don't know any C++ at all, and we vibe-coded the entire project over a few weeks. The core pieces of the build are… what a world!

AndrewKemendo 9mo ago
I would’ve walked for days to a CompUSA and spent my life savings if there was anything remotely equivalent to this when I was learning C on my Macintosh 4400 in 1997 People don’t appreciate what they have
- lifetimerubyist 9mo ago
  It’s worse. They’re proud they don’t know.
  - risyachka 9mo ago
    Its like ordering a project from upwork- someone did it for you, you have no idea what is going on, kinda works though.
    - datsci_est_2015 9mo ago
      Great analogy. “I don’t know any C++ but I hired some people on Upwork and they delivered this software demo.”
      - whateveracct 9mo ago
        Con fuckign gratys, u can buy compute
    - kmijyiyxfbklao 9mo ago
      Since there are no humans involved, it's more like growing a tree. Sure it's good to know how trees grow, but not knowing about cells didn't stop thousands of years of agriculture.
      - ambicapter 9mo ago
        Very interesting analogy
        amlib 9mo ago
        Except that the tree is so malformed and the core structure so unsound that it can't grow much past its germination and dies of malnourishment because since you have zero understanding of biology, forestry and related fields there is no knowledge to save it or help it grow healthy. Also out of nowhere an invasive species of spiders that was inside the seed starts replicating geometrically and within seconds wraps the whole forest with webs and asks for a ransom in order to produce the secret enzyme that can dissolve it. Trying to torch it will set the whole forest on fire, brute force is futile. Unfortunately, you assumed the process would only plagiarize the good bits, but seems like it also sometimes plagiarizes the bad bits too, oops.
      - Jaysobel 9mo ago
        The Gas Town piece reminded me of this as well. The author there leaned into role playing, social and culture analogies, and it made a lot more sense than an architecture diagram in which one node is “black box intelligence” with a single line leading out of it…
      - risyachka 9mo ago
        Its not like tree at all because tree is one and done. Code is a project that has to be updated, fixed, etc. So when something breaks - you have to ask the contractor again. It may not find an issue, or mess things up when it tries to fix it making project useless, etc. Its more like a car. Every time something goes wrong you will pay for it - sometimes it will get back in even worse shape (no refunds though), sometimes it will cost you x100 because there is nothing you can do, you need it and you can't manage it on your own.
        eks391 9mo ago
        Trees are not static, unchanging, pop into existence and forget about, things. Trees that don't get regular "updates" of adequate sunlight, water, and nutrients die. In fact, too much light or water could kill it. Or soil that is not the right courseness or acidity level could hamper or prevent growth. Now add "bugs". Literal bugs, diseases, and even competing plants that could eat, poison, or choke the tree. You might be thinking of trees that are indigenous to an area. Even these compete for the resources and plagues of their area, but are more apt than the trees accustom to different environments, and even they go through the cycle of life. I think his analogy was perfect, because this is the first time coding could resemble nature. We are just used to the carefully curated human made code, as there has not been such a thing as naturally occuring, no human interaction, code before
  - doug_durham 9mo ago
    "They" are? I didn't see that in the article. It sounds like you are projecting your prejudices on to a non-defined out group.
- imiric 9mo ago
  Did you actually learn C? Be thankful nothing like this existed in 1997. A machine generating code you don't understand is not the way to learn a programming language. It's a way to create software without programming. These tools can be used as learning assistants, but the vast majority of people don't use them as such. This will lead to a collective degradation of knowledge and skills, and the proliferation of shoddily built software with more issues than anyone relying on these tools will know how to fix. At least people who can actually program will be in demand to fix this mess for years to come.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - metaltyphoon 9mo ago
    I don't understand how OP thinks that being oblivious how anything work underneath is a good thing. There is a threshold of abstraction to which you must know how it works to effectively fix it when it breaks.
    - jedberg 9mo ago
      You can be a super productive Python coder without any clue how assembly works. Vibe coding is just one more level of abstraction. Just like how we still need assembly and C programmers for the most critical use cases, we'll still need Python and Golang programmers for things that need to be more efficient than what was vibe coded. But do you really need your $whatever to be super efficient, or is it good enough if it just works?
      - kshri24 9mo ago
        One is deterministic the other is not. I leave it to you to determine which is which in this scenario.
        afro88 9mo ago
        Humans writing code are also non deterministic. When you vibe code you're basically a product owner / manager. Vibe coding isn't a higher level programming language, it's an abstraction over a software engineer / engineering team.
yoyohello13 9mo ago
Everyone should read that section. It was really interesting reading about their experiences/challenges getting it all working.
falloutx 9mo ago
First time I am seeing realistic timelines from a vibe-coded project. Usually everyone who vibe codes just says they did in few hours, no matter the project.
- ben_w 9mo ago
  Hmm. My experience with it is that a few hours of that will get you a sprint if you're lucky and the prompt hits the happy path. I had… I think two of those, over 5 weeks? I can believe plenty of random people stumble across happy-path examples. Exciting when it works, but I think a much more exciting result for people with less experience who may not know that the "works for me" demo is the dreaded "first 90%", and even fairly small projects aren't done until the fifth-to-tenth 90%. (That, and that vibe coding in the sense of "no code review" are prone to balls of mud, so you need to be above average at project management to avoid that after a few sprint-equivalents of output).
- Aurornis 9mo ago
  It’s possible to vibe code certain generic things in a few hours if you’re basically combining common, thoroughly documented, mature building blocks. It’s not going to be production ready or polished but you can get surprisingly far with some things. For real work, that phase is like starting from a template or a boilerplate repo. The real work begins after the basics are wired together.

AndrewKemendo 9mo ago

I would’ve walked for days to a CompUSA and spent my life savings if there was anything remotely equivalent to this when I was learning C on my Macintosh 4400 in 1997 People don’t appreciate what they have

lifetimerubyist 9mo ago
It’s worse. They’re proud they don’t know.
- risyachka 9mo ago
  Its like ordering a project from upwork- someone did it for you, you have no idea what is going on, kinda works though.
  - datsci_est_2015 9mo ago
    Great analogy. “I don’t know any C++ but I hired some people on Upwork and they delivered this software demo.”
    - whateveracct 9mo ago
      Con fuckign gratys, u can buy compute
  - kmijyiyxfbklao 9mo ago
    Since there are no humans involved, it's more like growing a tree. Sure it's good to know how trees grow, but not knowing about cells didn't stop thousands of years of agriculture.
    - ambicapter 9mo ago
      Very interesting analogy
      - amlib 9mo ago
        Except that the tree is so malformed and the core structure so unsound that it can't grow much past its germination and dies of malnourishment because since you have zero understanding of biology, forestry and related fields there is no knowledge to save it or help it grow healthy. Also out of nowhere an invasive species of spiders that was inside the seed starts replicating geometrically and within seconds wraps the whole forest with webs and asks for a ransom in order to produce the secret enzyme that can dissolve it. Trying to torch it will set the whole forest on fire, brute force is futile. Unfortunately, you assumed the process would only plagiarize the good bits, but seems like it also sometimes plagiarizes the bad bits too, oops.
    - Jaysobel 9mo ago
      The Gas Town piece reminded me of this as well. The author there leaned into role playing, social and culture analogies, and it made a lot more sense than an architecture diagram in which one node is “black box intelligence” with a single line leading out of it…
    - risyachka 9mo ago
      Its not like tree at all because tree is one and done. Code is a project that has to be updated, fixed, etc. So when something breaks - you have to ask the contractor again. It may not find an issue, or mess things up when it tries to fix it making project useless, etc. Its more like a car. Every time something goes wrong you will pay for it - sometimes it will get back in even worse shape (no refunds though), sometimes it will cost you x100 because there is nothing you can do, you need it and you can't manage it on your own.
      - eks391 9mo ago
        Trees are not static, unchanging, pop into existence and forget about, things. Trees that don't get regular "updates" of adequate sunlight, water, and nutrients die. In fact, too much light or water could kill it. Or soil that is not the right courseness or acidity level could hamper or prevent growth. Now add "bugs". Literal bugs, diseases, and even competing plants that could eat, poison, or choke the tree. You might be thinking of trees that are indigenous to an area. Even these compete for the resources and plagues of their area, but are more apt than the trees accustom to different environments, and even they go through the cycle of life. I think his analogy was perfect, because this is the first time coding could resemble nature. We are just used to the carefully curated human made code, as there has not been such a thing as naturally occuring, no human interaction, code before
- doug_durham 9mo ago
  "They" are? I didn't see that in the article. It sounds like you are projecting your prejudices on to a non-defined out group.
imiric 9mo ago
Did you actually learn C? Be thankful nothing like this existed in 1997. A machine generating code you don't understand is not the way to learn a programming language. It's a way to create software without programming. These tools can be used as learning assistants, but the vast majority of people don't use them as such. This will lead to a collective degradation of knowledge and skills, and the proliferation of shoddily built software with more issues than anyone relying on these tools will know how to fix. At least people who can actually program will be in demand to fix this mess for years to come.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- metaltyphoon 9mo ago
  I don't understand how OP thinks that being oblivious how anything work underneath is a good thing. There is a threshold of abstraction to which you must know how it works to effectively fix it when it breaks.
  - jedberg 9mo ago
    You can be a super productive Python coder without any clue how assembly works. Vibe coding is just one more level of abstraction. Just like how we still need assembly and C programmers for the most critical use cases, we'll still need Python and Golang programmers for things that need to be more efficient than what was vibe coded. But do you really need your $whatever to be super efficient, or is it good enough if it just works?
    - kshri24 9mo ago
      One is deterministic the other is not. I leave it to you to determine which is which in this scenario.
      - afro88 9mo ago
        Humans writing code are also non deterministic. When you vibe code you're basically a product owner / manager. Vibe coding isn't a higher level programming language, it's an abstraction over a software engineer / engineering team.

yoyohello13 9mo ago

Everyone should read that section. It was really interesting reading about their experiences/challenges getting it all working.

falloutx 9mo ago

First time I am seeing realistic timelines from a vibe-coded project. Usually everyone who vibe codes just says they did in few hours, no matter the project.

ben_w 9mo ago
Hmm. My experience with it is that a few hours of that will get you a sprint if you're lucky and the prompt hits the happy path. I had… I think two of those, over 5 weeks? I can believe plenty of random people stumble across happy-path examples. Exciting when it works, but I think a much more exciting result for people with less experience who may not know that the "works for me" demo is the dreaded "first 90%", and even fairly small projects aren't done until the fifth-to-tenth 90%. (That, and that vibe coding in the sense of "no code review" are prone to balls of mud, so you need to be above average at project management to avoid that after a few sprint-equivalents of output).
Aurornis 9mo ago
It’s possible to vibe code certain generic things in a few hours if you’re basically combining common, thoroughly documented, mature building blocks. It’s not going to be production ready or polished but you can get surprisingly far with some things. For real work, that phase is like starting from a template or a boilerplate repo. The real work begins after the basics are wired together.