3 ms·

> End users don't care, companies don't care Look, I'm the last person in the world to defend Microsoft but .... End users do care. But they also have a lifet

> End users don't care, companies don't care Look, I'm the last person in the world to defend Microsoft but .... End users do care. But they also have a lifetime of Windows usage and a whole bunch of Windows software. Sure you could run your Windows software in an emulator but that's just another thing for Mom & Pop to learn. Its fine for a techie to say "I switched to Linux and its fine", but for a complete non-techie who has spent their life on Windows its a big ask. Companies also care but it also has to make hard-nose business sense. So when Microsoft turns up your doorstep and says ... "hey, you can have email, MDM, cloud-based file server, conferencing, calling and your old favourites Word, Excel, Outlook and Powerpoint all for $20 a month .... and all locked behind secure 2FA authentication" what the hell do you expect company management to say ? Its a bit of a no-brainer really. In addition you are a company, you employ people. Its a productivity killer to tell all those people who have been using Word/Powerpoint/Excel/Outlook all their lives to go learn something else.

nephihaha 9mo ago
Microsoft and Google are ubiquitous which is the main reason most people use them. (Apple is out there but different) My office computer was swapped for a Chromebook... Which is awful but hey, Google endorses it, so it must be okay, right? Microsoft's habit has been to rush things out and fix in post. Constant updates. The entire thing is a mess but there is little choice.
- skeeter2020 9mo ago
  It's really hard to pin down a company like MS with broad generalities; it's such a massive, multi-personality beast. Example: as a homogenized entity it's impossible to reconcile their consumer desktop behaviours with their approach to developers. The same creature that pushes ads in the OS also let's you build software that doesn't even need windows to run? There are good pieces and some great people at MS, and there are obviously some real psychotic a-holes too.
  - nephihaha 9mo ago
    The whole model of Big Tech is very gangsterish — steal and store private property, and eliminate the competition by excluding them. You can't even download a lot of programmes now without going through Google Play or the Apple store, which is an issue going beyond mere security.
CalRobert 9mo ago
Do people actually use Word? I can’t remember the last time I saw a docx file at a job. At least five years ago…
- reactordev 9mo ago
  They do but the mode has changed from Word.exe to https://www.o365.com/word https://www.o365.com/word or sharepoint -> word doc.
- hnlmorg 9mo ago
  That’s depends on your job. If you’re a line chef or florist, then you probably don’t use Word much. But that doesn’t mean MS Office isn’t still heavily used in other industries.
  - manwe150 9mo ago
    I think our florist sent a word doc with the proposal details for our wedding arrangements. I wonder how many catering contracts and menus are designed in word also
    - hnlmorg 9mo ago
      This is a moot point, but line chefs wouldn’t be the ones writing menus or signing catering contracts. Otherwise I think we’re in completely agreement.
      - okanat 9mo ago
        Why not? If it is a small shop, Word has all the features both simple and intermediate ones (like putting shadows on images or removing background). So a 2-5 person businesses can handle their digital needs at very low cost. The alternatives usually implement limited set of features (Google Sheets) and/or terrible outdated interfaces (Libre Office).
        hnlmorg 9mo ago
KronisLV 9mo ago
> Its fine for a techie to say "I switched to Linux and its fine", but for a complete non-techie who has spent their life on Windows its a big ask. Feels like a Catch-22, Windows is popular because of the status quo and because it also happens to be what's taught in schools (at least over here) and what you run into in workplaces. Why? Because Windows is popular - of course you should teach it! At the same time, modern mainstream Linux distros (think Mint, not Arch) are pretty stable and the UI/UX can be more pleasant instead of dealing with the occasional bit of Windows BS. Despite that, there are still some functionality gaps - AD and Group Policy in org settings, I would say that LibreOffice is good enough but now office stuff is being pushed into cloud (which I think sucks but oh well, people benefit a bunch from Google Docs and MS kinda just made the OneDrive/Teams/365/whatever experience be weird), as well as some Windows software just not running on Linux distros even with Wine and whatnot and sometimes there not being Linux native versions, which has gotten better in the past years. But for a machine for a non-technical user whose mind isn't corrupted with Windows'isms and who will mostly do web browsing and cares that any downloaded files will display (videos, images, PDFs and office docs and such)... I'd say it's already a pretty good option! It's just the case that those users almost don't exist and anyone who might try to assist them will also almost always either assume Windows as the default (e.g. if they gotta call in to some support), or won't even know how to help with Linux cause of the aforementioned status quo.
- skeeter2020 9mo ago
  Do they really "teach Windows" in schools? I see way more people treat the browser as the OS, if they even use a non-mobile device. Your comment is full of phrases that answer why consumers and enterprise won't switch: "pretty stable", "good enough", "a pretty good option". This are true for the Windows default; why switch?
  - Paianni 9mo ago
    Windows would be 'taught' as a byproduct of another activity involving Windows software, usually starting with Office/365.
  - 201984 9mo ago
immibis 9mo ago
End users mostly don't know what Windows is. You can see this when someone picks up a tablet and opens Google Docs.

nephihaha 9mo ago

Microsoft and Google are ubiquitous which is the main reason most people use them. (Apple is out there but different) My office computer was swapped for a Chromebook... Which is awful but hey, Google endorses it, so it must be okay, right? Microsoft's habit has been to rush things out and fix in post. Constant updates. The entire thing is a mess but there is little choice.

skeeter2020 9mo ago
It's really hard to pin down a company like MS with broad generalities; it's such a massive, multi-personality beast. Example: as a homogenized entity it's impossible to reconcile their consumer desktop behaviours with their approach to developers. The same creature that pushes ads in the OS also let's you build software that doesn't even need windows to run? There are good pieces and some great people at MS, and there are obviously some real psychotic a-holes too.
- nephihaha 9mo ago
  The whole model of Big Tech is very gangsterish — steal and store private property, and eliminate the competition by excluding them. You can't even download a lot of programmes now without going through Google Play or the Apple store, which is an issue going beyond mere security.

CalRobert 9mo ago

Do people actually use Word? I can’t remember the last time I saw a docx file at a job. At least five years ago…

reactordev 9mo ago
They do but the mode has changed from Word.exe to https://www.o365.com/word https://www.o365.com/word or sharepoint -> word doc.
hnlmorg 9mo ago
That’s depends on your job. If you’re a line chef or florist, then you probably don’t use Word much. But that doesn’t mean MS Office isn’t still heavily used in other industries.
- manwe150 9mo ago
  I think our florist sent a word doc with the proposal details for our wedding arrangements. I wonder how many catering contracts and menus are designed in word also
  - hnlmorg 9mo ago
    This is a moot point, but line chefs wouldn’t be the ones writing menus or signing catering contracts. Otherwise I think we’re in completely agreement.
    - okanat 9mo ago
      Why not? If it is a small shop, Word has all the features both simple and intermediate ones (like putting shadows on images or removing background). So a 2-5 person businesses can handle their digital needs at very low cost. The alternatives usually implement limited set of features (Google Sheets) and/or terrible outdated interfaces (Libre Office).
      - hnlmorg 9mo ago

KronisLV 9mo ago

> Its fine for a techie to say "I switched to Linux and its fine", but for a complete non-techie who has spent their life on Windows its a big ask. Feels like a Catch-22, Windows is popular because of the status quo and because it also happens to be what's taught in schools (at least over here) and what you run into in workplaces. Why? Because Windows is popular - of course you should teach it! At the same time, modern mainstream Linux distros (think Mint, not Arch) are pretty stable and the UI/UX can be more pleasant instead of dealing with the occasional bit of Windows BS. Despite that, there are still some functionality gaps - AD and Group Policy in org settings, I would say that LibreOffice is good enough but now office stuff is being pushed into cloud (which I think sucks but oh well, people benefit a bunch from Google Docs and MS kinda just made the OneDrive/Teams/365/whatever experience be weird), as well as some Windows software just not running on Linux distros even with Wine and whatnot and sometimes there not being Linux native versions, which has gotten better in the past years. But for a machine for a non-technical user whose mind isn't corrupted with Windows'isms and who will mostly do web browsing and cares that any downloaded files will display (videos, images, PDFs and office docs and such)... I'd say it's already a pretty good option! It's just the case that those users almost don't exist and anyone who might try to assist them will also almost always either assume Windows as the default (e.g. if they gotta call in to some support), or won't even know how to help with Linux cause of the aforementioned status quo.

skeeter2020 9mo ago
Do they really "teach Windows" in schools? I see way more people treat the browser as the OS, if they even use a non-mobile device. Your comment is full of phrases that answer why consumers and enterprise won't switch: "pretty stable", "good enough", "a pretty good option". This are true for the Windows default; why switch?
- Paianni 9mo ago
  Windows would be 'taught' as a byproduct of another activity involving Windows software, usually starting with Office/365.
- 201984 9mo ago

immibis 9mo ago

End users mostly don't know what Windows is. You can see this when someone picks up a tablet and opens Google Docs.