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Is there any particular reason to take this claim from Maduro at face value?

by loeg 10mo ago

bflesch 10mo ago
Good point. It's easier to say you got hacked by nation state actors than to tell your boss you accidentally screwed up a major system with no way to recover. It's not like 99% of the management could tell the difference.
- JKCalhoun 10mo ago
  Agree. In hindsight though the claim gets a little more credibility.
MSFT_Edging 10mo ago
In the 2019 book "Sandworm", which discusses cyber warfare against infrastructure like this, but between Russia and Ukraine, the author begs the question in an interview with a US military/intelligence official, "why doesn't the US go after these hackers and designate targeting civilian infrastructure as a crime?" To which the response was essentially "The US would like to reserve those types of cyber attacks for their own uses" These quotes are very loose, I read it last year, but essentially, the US didn't make a stink about older grid attacks in order to save face when the US does it. Additionally, much of VZ's difficulty was due to the massive sanctions against the nation. Sanctions are effectively attacks on a nation's citizens to pressure the government. Disabling power infrastructure is absolutely in-line with the motives of sanctions and embargos.
- GorbachevyChase 10mo ago
  I think perhaps nationalizing your oil companies, looting their assets for political reasons, and driving out the only people with the competencies to operate your only valuable industry might have a tiny bit to do with the state of the country. I feel like Mother Goose had a cautionary tale about killing your golden goose that perhaps Venezuela’s leadership ought to read up on.
GrowingSideways 10mo ago
Is there a particular reason to take any state account of anything at all at face value? At some point you either have to accept to play the game or reject all news. In this case, it fits squarely in with American foreign policy, especially their orientation towards Venezuelan chavismo.
- lentil_soup 10mo ago
  It also fits squarely with corruption in Venezuela, specially regarding energy. Venezuela has been rationing electricity across the country since 2009 and has been involved in countless corruption scandals involving Odebrecht, PDVSA, Derwick Associates. I understand the US's foreign policy is a global threat, but let's not let that be an excuse for the atrocities and corruption of tyrants in Venezuela and other places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_crisis_in_Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_crisis_in_Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odebrecht_case#Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odebrecht_case#Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derwick_Associates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derwick_Associates
  - beepbooptheory 10mo ago
    What is the scandal supposed to be in the first one? No water in the dam? Mismanagement? Nationalization itself? The Derwick one seems pretty light too, at least the article here just mentions an accusation from a journalist. And even then, if we are using corruption/overbilling with regard to a government contractor as an "atrocity" now.. That's going to have wider repercussions than here. And ok, Venezuela took bribes from another government contractor, along with many other countries. I wouldn't call that an atrocity, but if that's what it is I guess I will give you the benefit of the doubt about it. I give you benefit of the doubt about everything really! I just don't know if you have packaged your case here well is all.
    - lentil_soup 10mo ago
      The scandal is that the energy crisis was declared in 2009, and 17 years later, after investing $100 billion of which up to $80 billion disappeared, there are still blackouts across the country. That's all in the first article. The Derwick one is not just one reporter either, there's local and international reporters involved including claims from Reporters Without Borders where reporters received "threats, pressures, bribe offers". That's also in the article. As for the attrocities I meant the Maduro (and current) government in general. There are currently over 1000 political prisoners in the country, a mix of protesters, politicians, reporters, etc. A lot of them have been tortured and many have died in custody. Most of the sources from NGO are in Spanish but the Wikipedia is a good start, specially the section about the Maduro government [1] If you check the news right now you'll see that only in the past month about 50 have been released. There's a huge effort in the country right now to get the hundreds of others out. Ultimately, what I want to say is that while we can express disdain for the US government we can do the same for the Venezuelan one, even if they claim to be against each other. Maduro and his gang are not the victims here, they've oppressed the Venezuelan people for 27 years, let's not give them an easy out [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Venezuela

Is there any particular reason to take this claim from Maduro at face value?

by loeg 10mo ago

Is there any particular reason to take this claim from Maduro at face value?

Good point. It's easier to say you got hacked by nation state actors than to tell your boss you accidentally screwed up a major system with no way to recover. It's not like 99% of the management could tell the difference.

JKCalhoun 10mo ago
Agree. In hindsight though the claim gets a little more credibility.

MSFT_Edging 10mo ago

In the 2019 book "Sandworm", which discusses cyber warfare against infrastructure like this, but between Russia and Ukraine, the author begs the question in an interview with a US military/intelligence official, "why doesn't the US go after these hackers and designate targeting civilian infrastructure as a crime?" To which the response was essentially "The US would like to reserve those types of cyber attacks for their own uses" These quotes are very loose, I read it last year, but essentially, the US didn't make a stink about older grid attacks in order to save face when the US does it. Additionally, much of VZ's difficulty was due to the massive sanctions against the nation. Sanctions are effectively attacks on a nation's citizens to pressure the government. Disabling power infrastructure is absolutely in-line with the motives of sanctions and embargos.

GorbachevyChase 10mo ago
I think perhaps nationalizing your oil companies, looting their assets for political reasons, and driving out the only people with the competencies to operate your only valuable industry might have a tiny bit to do with the state of the country. I feel like Mother Goose had a cautionary tale about killing your golden goose that perhaps Venezuela’s leadership ought to read up on.

GrowingSideways 10mo ago

Is there a particular reason to take any state account of anything at all at face value? At some point you either have to accept to play the game or reject all news. In this case, it fits squarely in with American foreign policy, especially their orientation towards Venezuelan chavismo.

lentil_soup 10mo ago
It also fits squarely with corruption in Venezuela, specially regarding energy. Venezuela has been rationing electricity across the country since 2009 and has been involved in countless corruption scandals involving Odebrecht, PDVSA, Derwick Associates. I understand the US's foreign policy is a global threat, but let's not let that be an excuse for the atrocities and corruption of tyrants in Venezuela and other places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_crisis_in_Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_crisis_in_Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odebrecht_case#Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odebrecht_case#Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derwick_Associates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derwick_Associates
- beepbooptheory 10mo ago
  What is the scandal supposed to be in the first one? No water in the dam? Mismanagement? Nationalization itself? The Derwick one seems pretty light too, at least the article here just mentions an accusation from a journalist. And even then, if we are using corruption/overbilling with regard to a government contractor as an "atrocity" now.. That's going to have wider repercussions than here. And ok, Venezuela took bribes from another government contractor, along with many other countries. I wouldn't call that an atrocity, but if that's what it is I guess I will give you the benefit of the doubt about it. I give you benefit of the doubt about everything really! I just don't know if you have packaged your case here well is all.
  - lentil_soup 10mo ago
    The scandal is that the energy crisis was declared in 2009, and 17 years later, after investing $100 billion of which up to $80 billion disappeared, there are still blackouts across the country. That's all in the first article. The Derwick one is not just one reporter either, there's local and international reporters involved including claims from Reporters Without Borders where reporters received "threats, pressures, bribe offers". That's also in the article. As for the attrocities I meant the Maduro (and current) government in general. There are currently over 1000 political prisoners in the country, a mix of protesters, politicians, reporters, etc. A lot of them have been tortured and many have died in custody. Most of the sources from NGO are in Spanish but the Wikipedia is a good start, specially the section about the Maduro government [1] If you check the news right now you'll see that only in the past month about 50 have been released. There's a huge effort in the country right now to get the hundreds of others out. Ultimately, what I want to say is that while we can express disdain for the US government we can do the same for the Venezuelan one, even if they claim to be against each other. Maduro and his gang are not the victims here, they've oppressed the Venezuelan people for 27 years, let's not give them an easy out [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Venezuela