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I love this but I think you'll be surprised at your success rate. Everyone is struggling with this, not just you. Right on the heels of covid we were debating

I love this but I think you'll be surprised at your success rate. Everyone is struggling with this, not just you. Right on the heels of covid we were debating whether to have a NYE party or just go to a friend's house for a low key thing. We were paralyzed a bit feeling like, why we weren't invited to other parties ourselves? Won't everyone already be busy doing other stuff? In the end my wife took the leap and invited a ton of neighbors and friends. Guess what?? Almost everyone showed up! Which means all those people were going to be sitting at home feeling bad and wondering the same thing. You just need to believe and get over it, people want to hang out. We've all just gotten out of the habit.

sailfast 9mo ago
In my experience, the problem is not a low success rate, but the burnout from being the only person that invites people to do things. At a certain point you want to see some reciprocation to create community. It can definitely happen, but a lot of folks still fall back on the habits. You have to invite and then also start asking people who's gonna host the next one and get them on the hook, and then not burnout from being a constant organizer :)
- shartshooter 9mo ago
  It’s easy to find reasons to talk yourself out of action. Maybe you’ll get burned out, maybe you won’t. But if you never try you’ll never know. And you’ll definitely miss out on something special
- justonceokay 9mo ago
  > burnout from being the only person that invites people to do things If you get burned out from being the nexus of your social circle, that sounds like a problem stemming from your success
  - SoftTalker 9mo ago
    Some people thrive at being the center of their social circle. To me it sounds awful. Different strokes...
- SoftTalker 9mo ago
  Exactly why my parents stopped hosting dinner and cocktail parties. Nobody ever reciprocated, it was a lot of work, and eventually they just stopped.
  - duderific 9mo ago
    We've noticed this in our neighborhood. Once a year we host a few families before going out trick or treating with our kids. We buy a bunch of pizza so everyone can eat and don't ask for the other families to kick in. We were hoping the other families would reciprocate, and maybe invite us to some of their gatherings (especially two families who hang out together quite a bit.) So far it hasn't happened at all, they just receive our graciousness and move on immediately.
    - socalgal2 9mo ago
      Potluck parties help. Then they, generally, at least partly participated. Some people will just bring soda or chips or beer but that's still better than 0.
    - unsupp0rted 9mo ago
      > they just receive our graciousness Or think they’re doing you a favor by not rejecting your invite
    - pardon_me 9mo ago
      So you set something up to weasel your way into other "families" friendships by doing a specific thing and then judging their response/non-response? Like A/B testing humans. Perhaps some people can sense this stuff subconsciously. Relationships should build naturally.
  - parpfish 9mo ago
    As somebody who does host and doesn’t get a ton of reciprocity, the problem isn’t burn out (because I love doing it). The problem is second guessing whether this is something the group enjoys and whether they are just humoring me.
- ethbr1 9mo ago
  There's a few problems, at least in the US: 1. Hyper-perfect social media / television setting "the best" expectations for an event. 2. Decreased knowledge of how to host a gathering. It's not rocket science, but throwing one the first time can seem daunting. And throwing one well does take skill. E.g. icebreakers, identifying and facilitating the right introductions by highlighting mutual interests, making sure wallflowers have a good time, defusing tensions, food, etc. 3. Decreased American tolerance for and ability to handle awkwardness, and there's always going to be some awkwardness in social interactions. 4. Decreased public/accessible American meeting places. There used to (< 2000) be a plethora of low-cost, broadly-accessible spaces that could serve as training wheels for events (handling food, furnishings, cleaning, etc). They've essentially all been privatized, commercialized, and optimized to turn seats -- think real coffee shops disappearing in favor of Starbucks.
  - publicdebates 9mo ago
    > 3. Decreased American tolerance for and ability to handle awkwardness, and there's always going to be some awkwardness in social interactions. I wonder how much of this is due to our ever increasing sense of obligation to be "performing" all the time. Maybe increased by the perpetual presence of social media and the habits and mindset that both creating and consuming for it creates.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
    - ethbr1 9mo ago
      I thought that originally, but I actually think it's more experiential/exposure-side. Hypothesis: modern society (especially apps) has decreased the amount of realtime, face-to-face social interactions at all stages of life, which has eventually manifested into a decreased average (there are still some social people!) capability to deal with social awkwardness. And consequently less comfort/appetite for putting oneself in situations where it might happen.
      - 9mo ago
- marcus_holmes 9mo ago
  This. My wife and I built our social life when we moved countries, and we had a group of friends that we'd meet every week or two. But only when we invited them. No-one else in the group ever organised anything. It got really tiring. We could not get anyone else to organise a meet, they always had reasons why they couldn't organise one (but could turn up to it fine). We tried a bunch of things, but nothing worked - if we didn't organise it, it didn't happen. We ended up moving away and the whole social group collapsed and stopped meeting.
  - cwnyth 9mo ago
    I think some people are just the center of gravity, and that particular friend circle revolves around them. Before COVID, we had a friend group that would hang out fairly regularly. Once I left (for a job, not fleeing the city), none of them hung out without me. Everyone was friendly with each other, but everyone also had their own lives going on with their own friends and other circles. While I was the glue for that circle, it wasn't like everyone just stayed at home having pity parties when I wasn't around. My anecdote might have limited relevance here, but I think it's something worth considering.
    - marcus_holmes 9mo ago
      Do any of those friends organise anything for any of their other friend groups? I get the feeling that some people organise, while most people don't. I haven't seen the situation where a person organises stuff for one group, but not for another group. It always tends to be the same people doing the organising for all their friends. At least that's what I've observed, I'd welcome any other observations. edit: poor choice of words
      - socalgal2 9mo ago
        That attitude, the some people are leeches, to me is part of the problem. If you go in with the expectation that others owe you something or they're bad people, you're only going to be going down the path of not doing it.
- groby_b 9mo ago
  You'll need to get over the idea of this being a shared load. Every community has one or two people that are "the engine" and constantly keep people reconnecting. Has nothing to do with social media, or Covid - it's always been the case as far as I can think back (and that's the early 80's) Yes, you can push and prod people to occasionally host, but that's also a ton of work.
- ljm 9mo ago
  The lack of reciprocation is a tough one. I think it also helps sometimes to understand that not everyone is good at being the mother goose or the facilitator, especially if someone else is already good at doing it, and it's not because they lack interest or don't care. I have some friends who very easily lose themselves in their work and the stress around it and if I wasn't the one checking in and basically pulling them away, I'd miss out on what are easily my favourite days out and it has no impact on how much we enjoy each other's company. Maybe one day it changes but until then I'm there for them. That said, there are of course times where it's better to just let go. But those people were probably never that important to you in the first place.
- brailsafe 9mo ago
  I sometimes wonder about this, I have a friend who does most of the organizing for parties or whatever. My sense is that there are a few different kinds of people, among those are people who, if they didn't organize parties, there wouldn't really be much of a platform for hanging out for them and others like them, while others are completely isolated, don't organize and don't have any other third space, and others yet have many smaller interactions from many other parts of life that don't necessitate a larger meetup necessarily. If you're an "organizer" type, my guess is that the people you'd hope reciprocate fall into the latter camp; they're happy to show up and have a good time, but they probably have a bunch of other things to explore that for some reason they haven't felt you'd be into... or a bunch of other possible reasons. Asking them to host a party is asking them to fabricate a social setting from thin air, but maybe they just organically don't find that to be something they need to do. For me, I'll host something for a small group if I get some inspiration, but on a week to week basis I'm often in extremely social third-spaces, supplemented by larger parties (probably bi-weekly). My effort is often best spent meeting people for deliberate, intimate, outdoor sports adventures or coffee hangouts, but the same person I know who tends to organize larger parties doesn't really feel like someone who'd be into these; they can't really hold a conversation 1 on 1 for very long, and they're not super curious or vulnerable or athletic in the way that's necessary to engage in those as much. He's a regimented, scheduled, impatient, person. They often need a sort of fabricated social vehicle (also likes to decorate and host), whereas I get nearly all of my socializing from incidentally being in social space. I think it's fine to be either of course. It's ok that my organizer friend doesn't like heights, and so I won't invite him to climb mountains, he likes hosting parties, so I try to attend as many as I can. Note that I don't mean the non-organizer (me) is just passively socializing, it's just that they have different catalysts built into the things they do that extend into socializing easily. I'm DMing 1 or 2 friends, multiple times a week, to do something we both enjoy or just chat while walking around the city. While parties and hosted things are neat, they're just not very good platforms for depth. Just as well, I do try and be inviting to everyone who'd like to come out and do other things, in general it's important to reciprocate, but I'm not hosting a party just because someone else did.
- LoveMortuus 9mo ago
  >In my experience, the problem is not a low success rate, but the burnout from being the only person that invites people to do things. This is what mostly happened with me, I just got burned out from always having to be the one to organise everything or nothing would happen, which is what ended up happening after I stopped, we just stopped meeting up and eventually grew completely apart. Now, I'm in a completely different country and I don't even have anyone's contacts anymore. But that's been life for me, people come and people go, never to stay. I've accepted it by now, it can still hurt from time to time, but it is what it is, one should not force their will onto others, I believe.
- skeeter2020 9mo ago
  try and build "the community" outside of the effort of one or a few people. This is hard. My example: we've built some quality dirt jumps for bike riders, and while there's a core group of ~10 people, you don't need all - or any - of them to come out for success. The location is the host and either a regularly scheduled or casual event keeps the community going. If people stop, the community will die and we'll move on.
cortesoft 9mo ago
> Everyone is struggling with this, not just you. Eh, I don't think EVERYONE is struggling with this. I am an introvert, and have no desire to go out and do more things with friends. I get enough socialization with my wife and kids, and don't really have the desire to do more things.
- drdeca 9mo ago
  I’m also an introvert, I think, but I do feel I would be better off with more socialization than I’m getting. Though, I’m also single, so, maybe I wouldn’t feel such a need if I were married? Idk.
- socalgal2 9mo ago
  > socialization with my wife and kids So you aren't one of the people that are lonely, because you have wife and kids
- wvh 9mo ago
  I used to think that way. Then, divorce, custody battle and the dark abyss. No home, nobody to talk to; just silence, loneliness, general apathy of the world around you. It's the trap of the middle-aged man: to focus on work, invest in family, and hope these things will be a constant because you are doing the right thing. We don't have enough emotional bonds, don't know how to create them, and if the wife leaves and takes the kids, there's nothing left.
  - CuriouslyC 9mo ago
    Sorry to hear that. I'd use this as an opportunity to do something exciting with your life (if finances permit). Go live in Asia and do the nomad thing, if you're lonely there are a ton of Filipinas who want nothing more than to be a good wife and provide for their family. Try to start a business, take up some kind of art and make an honest effort to get GOOD at it, etc.
  - astura 9mo ago
    Not only that, but you also want to teach the kids how to socialize outside of the family.
ozim 9mo ago
Not fun part is that the longer you stay at your home comfort zone the bigger social anxiety grows. Other annoying parts are if you fight off anxiety and do go out you most likely will run into minor inconvenience like some Karen honking on you or making a fuss in front of you when you’re waiting in line. Minor inconvenience like that refuels social anxiety.

sailfast 9mo ago

In my experience, the problem is not a low success rate, but the burnout from being the only person that invites people to do things. At a certain point you want to see some reciprocation to create community. It can definitely happen, but a lot of folks still fall back on the habits. You have to invite and then also start asking people who's gonna host the next one and get them on the hook, and then not burnout from being a constant organizer :)

shartshooter 9mo ago
It’s easy to find reasons to talk yourself out of action. Maybe you’ll get burned out, maybe you won’t. But if you never try you’ll never know. And you’ll definitely miss out on something special
justonceokay 9mo ago
> burnout from being the only person that invites people to do things If you get burned out from being the nexus of your social circle, that sounds like a problem stemming from your success
- SoftTalker 9mo ago
  Some people thrive at being the center of their social circle. To me it sounds awful. Different strokes...
SoftTalker 9mo ago
Exactly why my parents stopped hosting dinner and cocktail parties. Nobody ever reciprocated, it was a lot of work, and eventually they just stopped.
- duderific 9mo ago
  We've noticed this in our neighborhood. Once a year we host a few families before going out trick or treating with our kids. We buy a bunch of pizza so everyone can eat and don't ask for the other families to kick in. We were hoping the other families would reciprocate, and maybe invite us to some of their gatherings (especially two families who hang out together quite a bit.) So far it hasn't happened at all, they just receive our graciousness and move on immediately.
  - socalgal2 9mo ago
    Potluck parties help. Then they, generally, at least partly participated. Some people will just bring soda or chips or beer but that's still better than 0.
  - unsupp0rted 9mo ago
    > they just receive our graciousness Or think they’re doing you a favor by not rejecting your invite
  - pardon_me 9mo ago
    So you set something up to weasel your way into other "families" friendships by doing a specific thing and then judging their response/non-response? Like A/B testing humans. Perhaps some people can sense this stuff subconsciously. Relationships should build naturally.
- parpfish 9mo ago
  As somebody who does host and doesn’t get a ton of reciprocity, the problem isn’t burn out (because I love doing it). The problem is second guessing whether this is something the group enjoys and whether they are just humoring me.
ethbr1 9mo ago
There's a few problems, at least in the US: 1. Hyper-perfect social media / television setting "the best" expectations for an event. 2. Decreased knowledge of how to host a gathering. It's not rocket science, but throwing one the first time can seem daunting. And throwing one well does take skill. E.g. icebreakers, identifying and facilitating the right introductions by highlighting mutual interests, making sure wallflowers have a good time, defusing tensions, food, etc. 3. Decreased American tolerance for and ability to handle awkwardness, and there's always going to be some awkwardness in social interactions. 4. Decreased public/accessible American meeting places. There used to (< 2000) be a plethora of low-cost, broadly-accessible spaces that could serve as training wheels for events (handling food, furnishings, cleaning, etc). They've essentially all been privatized, commercialized, and optimized to turn seats -- think real coffee shops disappearing in favor of Starbucks.
- publicdebates 9mo ago
  > 3. Decreased American tolerance for and ability to handle awkwardness, and there's always going to be some awkwardness in social interactions. I wonder how much of this is due to our ever increasing sense of obligation to be "performing" all the time. Maybe increased by the perpetual presence of social media and the habits and mindset that both creating and consuming for it creates.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - ethbr1 9mo ago
    I thought that originally, but I actually think it's more experiential/exposure-side. Hypothesis: modern society (especially apps) has decreased the amount of realtime, face-to-face social interactions at all stages of life, which has eventually manifested into a decreased average (there are still some social people!) capability to deal with social awkwardness. And consequently less comfort/appetite for putting oneself in situations where it might happen.
    - 9mo ago
marcus_holmes 9mo ago
This. My wife and I built our social life when we moved countries, and we had a group of friends that we'd meet every week or two. But only when we invited them. No-one else in the group ever organised anything. It got really tiring. We could not get anyone else to organise a meet, they always had reasons why they couldn't organise one (but could turn up to it fine). We tried a bunch of things, but nothing worked - if we didn't organise it, it didn't happen. We ended up moving away and the whole social group collapsed and stopped meeting.
- cwnyth 9mo ago
  I think some people are just the center of gravity, and that particular friend circle revolves around them. Before COVID, we had a friend group that would hang out fairly regularly. Once I left (for a job, not fleeing the city), none of them hung out without me. Everyone was friendly with each other, but everyone also had their own lives going on with their own friends and other circles. While I was the glue for that circle, it wasn't like everyone just stayed at home having pity parties when I wasn't around. My anecdote might have limited relevance here, but I think it's something worth considering.
  - marcus_holmes 9mo ago
    Do any of those friends organise anything for any of their other friend groups? I get the feeling that some people organise, while most people don't. I haven't seen the situation where a person organises stuff for one group, but not for another group. It always tends to be the same people doing the organising for all their friends. At least that's what I've observed, I'd welcome any other observations. edit: poor choice of words
    - socalgal2 9mo ago
      That attitude, the some people are leeches, to me is part of the problem. If you go in with the expectation that others owe you something or they're bad people, you're only going to be going down the path of not doing it.
groby_b 9mo ago
You'll need to get over the idea of this being a shared load. Every community has one or two people that are "the engine" and constantly keep people reconnecting. Has nothing to do with social media, or Covid - it's always been the case as far as I can think back (and that's the early 80's) Yes, you can push and prod people to occasionally host, but that's also a ton of work.
ljm 9mo ago
The lack of reciprocation is a tough one. I think it also helps sometimes to understand that not everyone is good at being the mother goose or the facilitator, especially if someone else is already good at doing it, and it's not because they lack interest or don't care. I have some friends who very easily lose themselves in their work and the stress around it and if I wasn't the one checking in and basically pulling them away, I'd miss out on what are easily my favourite days out and it has no impact on how much we enjoy each other's company. Maybe one day it changes but until then I'm there for them. That said, there are of course times where it's better to just let go. But those people were probably never that important to you in the first place.
brailsafe 9mo ago
I sometimes wonder about this, I have a friend who does most of the organizing for parties or whatever. My sense is that there are a few different kinds of people, among those are people who, if they didn't organize parties, there wouldn't really be much of a platform for hanging out for them and others like them, while others are completely isolated, don't organize and don't have any other third space, and others yet have many smaller interactions from many other parts of life that don't necessitate a larger meetup necessarily. If you're an "organizer" type, my guess is that the people you'd hope reciprocate fall into the latter camp; they're happy to show up and have a good time, but they probably have a bunch of other things to explore that for some reason they haven't felt you'd be into... or a bunch of other possible reasons. Asking them to host a party is asking them to fabricate a social setting from thin air, but maybe they just organically don't find that to be something they need to do. For me, I'll host something for a small group if I get some inspiration, but on a week to week basis I'm often in extremely social third-spaces, supplemented by larger parties (probably bi-weekly). My effort is often best spent meeting people for deliberate, intimate, outdoor sports adventures or coffee hangouts, but the same person I know who tends to organize larger parties doesn't really feel like someone who'd be into these; they can't really hold a conversation 1 on 1 for very long, and they're not super curious or vulnerable or athletic in the way that's necessary to engage in those as much. He's a regimented, scheduled, impatient, person. They often need a sort of fabricated social vehicle (also likes to decorate and host), whereas I get nearly all of my socializing from incidentally being in social space. I think it's fine to be either of course. It's ok that my organizer friend doesn't like heights, and so I won't invite him to climb mountains, he likes hosting parties, so I try to attend as many as I can. Note that I don't mean the non-organizer (me) is just passively socializing, it's just that they have different catalysts built into the things they do that extend into socializing easily. I'm DMing 1 or 2 friends, multiple times a week, to do something we both enjoy or just chat while walking around the city. While parties and hosted things are neat, they're just not very good platforms for depth. Just as well, I do try and be inviting to everyone who'd like to come out and do other things, in general it's important to reciprocate, but I'm not hosting a party just because someone else did.
LoveMortuus 9mo ago
>In my experience, the problem is not a low success rate, but the burnout from being the only person that invites people to do things. This is what mostly happened with me, I just got burned out from always having to be the one to organise everything or nothing would happen, which is what ended up happening after I stopped, we just stopped meeting up and eventually grew completely apart. Now, I'm in a completely different country and I don't even have anyone's contacts anymore. But that's been life for me, people come and people go, never to stay. I've accepted it by now, it can still hurt from time to time, but it is what it is, one should not force their will onto others, I believe.
skeeter2020 9mo ago
try and build "the community" outside of the effort of one or a few people. This is hard. My example: we've built some quality dirt jumps for bike riders, and while there's a core group of ~10 people, you don't need all - or any - of them to come out for success. The location is the host and either a regularly scheduled or casual event keeps the community going. If people stop, the community will die and we'll move on.

cortesoft 9mo ago

> Everyone is struggling with this, not just you. Eh, I don't think EVERYONE is struggling with this. I am an introvert, and have no desire to go out and do more things with friends. I get enough socialization with my wife and kids, and don't really have the desire to do more things.

drdeca 9mo ago
I’m also an introvert, I think, but I do feel I would be better off with more socialization than I’m getting. Though, I’m also single, so, maybe I wouldn’t feel such a need if I were married? Idk.
socalgal2 9mo ago
> socialization with my wife and kids So you aren't one of the people that are lonely, because you have wife and kids
wvh 9mo ago
I used to think that way. Then, divorce, custody battle and the dark abyss. No home, nobody to talk to; just silence, loneliness, general apathy of the world around you. It's the trap of the middle-aged man: to focus on work, invest in family, and hope these things will be a constant because you are doing the right thing. We don't have enough emotional bonds, don't know how to create them, and if the wife leaves and takes the kids, there's nothing left.
- CuriouslyC 9mo ago
  Sorry to hear that. I'd use this as an opportunity to do something exciting with your life (if finances permit). Go live in Asia and do the nomad thing, if you're lonely there are a ton of Filipinas who want nothing more than to be a good wife and provide for their family. Try to start a business, take up some kind of art and make an honest effort to get GOOD at it, etc.
- astura 9mo ago
  Not only that, but you also want to teach the kids how to socialize outside of the family.

ozim 9mo ago

Not fun part is that the longer you stay at your home comfort zone the bigger social anxiety grows. Other annoying parts are if you fight off anxiety and do go out you most likely will run into minor inconvenience like some Karen honking on you or making a fuss in front of you when you’re waiting in line. Minor inconvenience like that refuels social anxiety.