6 ms·

I am beginning to think "Greenland" is a wedge to undermine NATO; it is a ruse used to unravel the NATO alliance. If "Greenland" doesn't divide NATO, maybe th

I am beginning to think "Greenland" is a wedge to undermine NATO; it is a ruse used to unravel the NATO alliance. If "Greenland" doesn't divide NATO, maybe the next ruse is for the US to unilaterally claim large chunks of the Arctic Ocean that violates the territorial sovereignty of other allies.

mring33621 9mo ago
Yeah, it sure smells "Putin-y"
- lostlogin 9mo ago
  The irony in needing to contain Russia by taking Greenland, also while bleeding Ukraine dry and appeasing Russia.
  - JacoboJacobi 9mo ago
    The strangest thing is that no one has learned from Ukraine and started buying Chines drones let alone larger arms deals as insurance against the threats in proximity.
- IAmGraydon 9mo ago
  The entire world smells Putin-y and has for a while. His influence is everywhere, and I believe much is the sickly state the world is in currently is due to him.
woodpanel 9mo ago
Hence, you don't hear anything negative from Putin about it.
jdiaz97 9mo ago
Yes. Trump is a russian asset. 1. ‘The perfect target’: Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia... 2. British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spie... 3. Now everyone knows that Putin was present when Trump shared intimate moments with "Bubba". They're beyond best friends. 4. Compare how Putin is treated by Trump, and how Zelensky is treated by Trump. 5. The first round of tariffs, every country on earth was included except Russia. Even countries that traded less than Russia-USA were included.
- gizajob 9mo ago
  Imagine the dirt they must have on him…
- stickfigure 9mo ago
  > Trump is a russian asset. I used to think this was tinfoil hat territory. I'm starting to come round to "this is the only narrative that fits the facts".
  - jdiaz97 9mo ago
    Yep, even if you ignore this massive wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates... and look at everything from first principles, it's a logical conclusion. The simplest answer. Occam's Razor
    - bulbar 9mo ago
      The simplest conclusion is that Trump has a narcissistic disorder and everything he does is related to that. All of his actions are well explained by this. Of course, he can be a Russian asset to some extend at the same time.
  - mrguyorama 9mo ago
    There are ways in which the Trump admin is aiding Ukraine right now that cannot fit the narrative though. If Putin controlled Trump outright, Ukraine would not be using US intel to more effectively strike Russian oil infrastructure. Trump blocked this intelligence sharing for a little bit during the initial "Peace talks" but now we are back to helping the find routes for weapons that won't be intercepted. That is in line with Trump being sympathetic to Putin's narrative, but not in line with Trump following Putin's orders. That infrastructure is critical for Russian state budget, something that is very strained, and for maintaining cheap energy internally to keep the populace apathetic. Putin would also not have wanted the US to waltz into Venezuela unopposed. Makes Russia look very weak to have an ally who they supply with military aide be so comprehensively owned. Unfortunately, Trump just idolizes Putin for being a powerful and oppressive dictator, because he likes power and wants that for himself. He has no moral qualms with the immoral things done by Putin. He loves the fake "Manly" persona. He's jealous of how effective Putin propaganda is.
standardUser 9mo ago
Who fucking knows with this guy. It feels pointless to speculate. Remember when he was obsessed with the Panama Canal? And the talk about relocating every person in Palestine? It reminds me of Hitler's writings, where he would divide up the world based on simplistic divisions that sounded like a 5-year-old playing an elaborate board game.
o-o- 9mo ago
https://news.meaww.com/fact-check-did-donald-trump-take-out-a-full-page-newspaper-ad-slamming-us-foreign-policy-in-1987 https://news.meaww.com/fact-check-did-donald-trump-take-out-... > The ad’s central message—that US allies should pay their fair share—remains a core principle of Trump’s foreign policy today. His longstanding skepticism of NATO, confrontations with international leaders, and demands for more financial contributions from allied nations all stem from the ideas he publicly expressed in 1987.
- IAmGraydon 9mo ago
  And are you aware that he placed this ad immediately after his return from a questionable trip to Russia, and did not express these views before then?
xorcist 9mo ago
The stated objectives for this administration was to be understood as: Weaken USD. Cheaper oil. Weaken NATO. This should surprise no one. Undermining NATO fits the now well known negotiation style perfectly, you can try to get a good deal from allies to put it back together, while simultaneously playing those allies against an alternative and opposite deal with Russia for doing business again. The latter has the added bonus of even cheaper oil. Neither is good for Ukraine and Taiwan unfortunately.
- consumer451 9mo ago
  > you can try to get a good deal from allies to put it back together There is no un-breaking this egg. Only the most deluded people in the world don't realize that there is no trust to be exchanged, for many generations at least. The most universal bad outcome is that many people had predicted, we are now living in a new age of accelerated nuclear proliferation thanks to the loss of Pax Americana.
mmooss 9mo ago
IMHO: The goal of the political movement (we really need a name for it after so many years in so many countries) is to replace the existing world order with a new one with them on top. The movement seems to include right-wing (semi-)authoritarians such as Trump and the GOP, Netanyahu, Putin, bin Salman (Saudi Arabia), lesser powers, and many American business interests including in SV. Leading Trump advisor Stephen Miller expressed one core position, which is that power rules the world - rather than human rights and votes, which is the fundamental of American tradition and law, and the current world order. So yes, policies like Venezuala and Greenland, as well as immigration policy, anti-science positions, pro-disinformation actions, etc. are intended for a broader political outcome, but it's much broader than NATO. They are playing for the whole thing. I'm surprised that more people on HN aren't very familiar with their strategy and goals.
- okanat 9mo ago
  Speculating a cabal of authoritarians planning to change the world order is strictly in tinfoil hat territory. It is much more boring than that. Democracy is an unstable way of ruling societies and generating value out of people. Keeping it healthy requires not only elections but lots of "undemocratic" powerful institutions with unelected well-educated people in it (courts, agencies, foundations, bureaucrats). Those institutions need to have actual power to coerce. The goal of the democracy should be generating quite a bit people who will hold those positions. Managing economics such that there aren't any too big organizations that can significantly affect individuals' independent decision making is also required. That's the antitrust laws and unions for ya. When educational, scientific and social organs are undermined, the public becomes more susceptible to strongman figures that provide easy solutions to the degradation. When economy is mismanaged undereducated people are easily swayed, more educated people are easily coerced. It is statistical common human behavior to support autocrats, especially under stress. Autocrats themselves have a strong inherent understanding of power and great skills/intuition to detect the weakest. If you encoutered bullies in your life, you may have observed how their brain and the cult of personality works. It is fascinating that they can pick out the weak so easily. Like the bullies, the autocrats understand each other since they understand themselves. Our crappy happenstance is not a result of a strategy but the systematic behavior of bullies and, bullied and oppressed people. The Republicans pick on Venezuela and Europe and Canada since they know that those societies are weak and they are separated. They know from years of backstabbing experience that if they play the game right, they will get to enjoy one more praise, one more success, one more sadistic dopamine rush. They will get to enjoy eating one separated bison from the herd at a time. They know that attacking a strong bully like themselves will be hard and it will probably hurt. They won't get the same feeling of accomplishment. Without attacking the system itself, it is really hard to win against it. There needs to be strong external factors for established autocratic regimes to collapse by letting them be. Attackers need to be smart and nimble and more importantly systematic. Moreover the lines of defense are not uniform. There are many smaller bullies even in the weak. They have lots of economic incentives to keep their small serfdoms.

mring33621 9mo ago

Yeah, it sure smells "Putin-y"

lostlogin 9mo ago
The irony in needing to contain Russia by taking Greenland, also while bleeding Ukraine dry and appeasing Russia.
- JacoboJacobi 9mo ago
  The strangest thing is that no one has learned from Ukraine and started buying Chines drones let alone larger arms deals as insurance against the threats in proximity.
IAmGraydon 9mo ago
The entire world smells Putin-y and has for a while. His influence is everywhere, and I believe much is the sickly state the world is in currently is due to him.

woodpanel 9mo ago

Hence, you don't hear anything negative from Putin about it.

jdiaz97 9mo ago

Yes. Trump is a russian asset. 1. ‘The perfect target’: Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia... 2. British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spie... 3. Now everyone knows that Putin was present when Trump shared intimate moments with "Bubba". They're beyond best friends. 4. Compare how Putin is treated by Trump, and how Zelensky is treated by Trump. 5. The first round of tariffs, every country on earth was included except Russia. Even countries that traded less than Russia-USA were included.

gizajob 9mo ago
Imagine the dirt they must have on him…
stickfigure 9mo ago
> Trump is a russian asset. I used to think this was tinfoil hat territory. I'm starting to come round to "this is the only narrative that fits the facts".
- jdiaz97 9mo ago
  Yep, even if you ignore this massive wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates... and look at everything from first principles, it's a logical conclusion. The simplest answer. Occam's Razor
  - bulbar 9mo ago
    The simplest conclusion is that Trump has a narcissistic disorder and everything he does is related to that. All of his actions are well explained by this. Of course, he can be a Russian asset to some extend at the same time.
- mrguyorama 9mo ago
  There are ways in which the Trump admin is aiding Ukraine right now that cannot fit the narrative though. If Putin controlled Trump outright, Ukraine would not be using US intel to more effectively strike Russian oil infrastructure. Trump blocked this intelligence sharing for a little bit during the initial "Peace talks" but now we are back to helping the find routes for weapons that won't be intercepted. That is in line with Trump being sympathetic to Putin's narrative, but not in line with Trump following Putin's orders. That infrastructure is critical for Russian state budget, something that is very strained, and for maintaining cheap energy internally to keep the populace apathetic. Putin would also not have wanted the US to waltz into Venezuela unopposed. Makes Russia look very weak to have an ally who they supply with military aide be so comprehensively owned. Unfortunately, Trump just idolizes Putin for being a powerful and oppressive dictator, because he likes power and wants that for himself. He has no moral qualms with the immoral things done by Putin. He loves the fake "Manly" persona. He's jealous of how effective Putin propaganda is.

standardUser 9mo ago

Who fucking knows with this guy. It feels pointless to speculate. Remember when he was obsessed with the Panama Canal? And the talk about relocating every person in Palestine? It reminds me of Hitler's writings, where he would divide up the world based on simplistic divisions that sounded like a 5-year-old playing an elaborate board game.

o-o- 9mo ago

https://news.meaww.com/fact-check-did-donald-trump-take-out-a-full-page-newspaper-ad-slamming-us-foreign-policy-in-1987 https://news.meaww.com/fact-check-did-donald-trump-take-out-... > The ad’s central message—that US allies should pay their fair share—remains a core principle of Trump’s foreign policy today. His longstanding skepticism of NATO, confrontations with international leaders, and demands for more financial contributions from allied nations all stem from the ideas he publicly expressed in 1987.

IAmGraydon 9mo ago
And are you aware that he placed this ad immediately after his return from a questionable trip to Russia, and did not express these views before then?

xorcist 9mo ago

The stated objectives for this administration was to be understood as: Weaken USD. Cheaper oil. Weaken NATO. This should surprise no one. Undermining NATO fits the now well known negotiation style perfectly, you can try to get a good deal from allies to put it back together, while simultaneously playing those allies against an alternative and opposite deal with Russia for doing business again. The latter has the added bonus of even cheaper oil. Neither is good for Ukraine and Taiwan unfortunately.

consumer451 9mo ago
> you can try to get a good deal from allies to put it back together There is no un-breaking this egg. Only the most deluded people in the world don't realize that there is no trust to be exchanged, for many generations at least. The most universal bad outcome is that many people had predicted, we are now living in a new age of accelerated nuclear proliferation thanks to the loss of Pax Americana.

mmooss 9mo ago

IMHO: The goal of the political movement (we really need a name for it after so many years in so many countries) is to replace the existing world order with a new one with them on top. The movement seems to include right-wing (semi-)authoritarians such as Trump and the GOP, Netanyahu, Putin, bin Salman (Saudi Arabia), lesser powers, and many American business interests including in SV. Leading Trump advisor Stephen Miller expressed one core position, which is that power rules the world - rather than human rights and votes, which is the fundamental of American tradition and law, and the current world order. So yes, policies like Venezuala and Greenland, as well as immigration policy, anti-science positions, pro-disinformation actions, etc. are intended for a broader political outcome, but it's much broader than NATO. They are playing for the whole thing. I'm surprised that more people on HN aren't very familiar with their strategy and goals.

okanat 9mo ago
Speculating a cabal of authoritarians planning to change the world order is strictly in tinfoil hat territory. It is much more boring than that. Democracy is an unstable way of ruling societies and generating value out of people. Keeping it healthy requires not only elections but lots of "undemocratic" powerful institutions with unelected well-educated people in it (courts, agencies, foundations, bureaucrats). Those institutions need to have actual power to coerce. The goal of the democracy should be generating quite a bit people who will hold those positions. Managing economics such that there aren't any too big organizations that can significantly affect individuals' independent decision making is also required. That's the antitrust laws and unions for ya. When educational, scientific and social organs are undermined, the public becomes more susceptible to strongman figures that provide easy solutions to the degradation. When economy is mismanaged undereducated people are easily swayed, more educated people are easily coerced. It is statistical common human behavior to support autocrats, especially under stress. Autocrats themselves have a strong inherent understanding of power and great skills/intuition to detect the weakest. If you encoutered bullies in your life, you may have observed how their brain and the cult of personality works. It is fascinating that they can pick out the weak so easily. Like the bullies, the autocrats understand each other since they understand themselves. Our crappy happenstance is not a result of a strategy but the systematic behavior of bullies and, bullied and oppressed people. The Republicans pick on Venezuela and Europe and Canada since they know that those societies are weak and they are separated. They know from years of backstabbing experience that if they play the game right, they will get to enjoy one more praise, one more success, one more sadistic dopamine rush. They will get to enjoy eating one separated bison from the herd at a time. They know that attacking a strong bully like themselves will be hard and it will probably hurt. They won't get the same feeling of accomplishment. Without attacking the system itself, it is really hard to win against it. There needs to be strong external factors for established autocratic regimes to collapse by letting them be. Attackers need to be smart and nimble and more importantly systematic. Moreover the lines of defense are not uniform. There are many smaller bullies even in the weak. They have lots of economic incentives to keep their small serfdoms.