7 ms·

GOV.UK: new government site built with open source software, £70 million cheaper

100 points by bfirsh 14y ago

Nursie 14y ago
Awesome. Except for loading in google analytics. I'd really rather that my interactions with my government were not reported to a US based megacorp.
- pbhjpbhj 14y ago
  This is pretty important point IMO. Why couldn't they use a local analytics system? Perhaps partner with one of the OS analytics like Piwik? Edit: Um, I just looked, they don't appear to be using GA but a local system already?
  - Nursie 14y ago
    I've sent site feedback on this issue now. If I was a twitterer I might tweet about it too, but I'm not so I won't.
  - Nursie 14y ago
    Err... Still there when I look at the page source for the front page at https://www.gov.uk https://www.gov.uk
    - andyjohnson0 14y ago
      Edit: Ignore this, its wrong. I was looking in the wrong place. Should have been http://gov.uk http://gov.uk. I've just (17:10 utc) at the source for http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/ http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/ and http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/16/gov-uk-the-start/ http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/16/gov-uk-the-st... there is only one occurrence of the string "google" in the page, and that is is link to a font called 'cabin': <link rel='stylesheet' id='linen-accent-font-style-css' href='http://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Cabin:bold http://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Cabin:bold type='text/css' media='all' /> Doesn't look like they are using google analytics to me, at least not now.
      - Flenser 14y ago
        "We track usage of the site with Google Analytics, using their API heavily to build dashboards" http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/govuk-launch-colophon/ http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/govuk-launch-colophon/
    - FuzzyDunlop 14y ago
      @andyjohnson0 - it's in there, around line 29 in the source. _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-26179049-1']); We're also referring to http://gov.uk http://gov.uk, which is what the OP link refers to, not the OP link itself.
      - andyjohnson0 14y ago
        Thanks! You're right and I'm wrong. I've edited my comment to make this clear.
    - pbhjpbhj 14y ago
      Yep, it's there, forgot to allow scripts (I use NoScript) before using Firebug to check the scripts! Doh!!
  - benblack86 14y ago
    Why is it important to use a local system? What is wrong with using the best system for the job wherever in the world it comes from?
    - Nursie 14y ago
      Because it's important that recorded information about my interactions with my government doesn't cross borders and escape from the data protection laws in the UK and the EU. If it was a traditional software system that actually ran on the servers owned by the government then that would be fine. With GA, at the very least Google get to know when I visit the site, and likely which pages I visit, simply through the requests my browser makes. I'm not familiar enough with GA to be able to judge how much else is transmitted to them.
      - sycren 14y ago
        Is there not a separate deal for Governments and Educational Institutes with Google to negate this?
        Nursie 14y ago
        I honestly have no idea, and the page on cookies does seem to say that they don't allow google to use the data or do much with it, but that just raises further questions as to how they could ever enforce that. I guess I'm just very suspicious when personal data crosses borders. EDIT - also wondering what you mean by a separate deal? If the data goes to the US it goes to the US and is then subject to US laws (and no longer subject to EU/UK protections, deal or no.
        7952 14y ago
        It's called the EU safe harbour certification. I'm not sure how rigorous it is.
    - mtgx 14y ago
      Because US can use the Patriot Act to get cloud data about foreign users. That's why.
- duiker101 14y ago
  Specially considering one of the best analytics services is in the UK, http://bango.com http://bango.com
- macavity23 14y ago
  Easy to disable in your browser, e.g. by using the Ghostery extension.
- ripperdoc 14y ago
  For what it's worth, one of Sweden's major newspapers recently did an investigative article about the use of Google Analytics in so many websites belonging to banks, government institutions, political parties, etc. It's now being investigated by privacy authorities. http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/webbsidor-avslojar-ditt-besok-for-google http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/webbsidor-avslojar-ditt-besok-for-g...
cangencer 14y ago
For the curious, here is the tech stack: http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/govuk-launch-colophon/ http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/govuk-launch-colophon/
- arocks 14y ago
  > The majority of our applications are written in ruby, based on either Ruby on Rails or Sinatra. > A few components are written in Scala and built on top of Play 2.0 > We’re running Mapit from MySociety which is built on top of Django Thank god it is not another Drupal based government site!
  - tomekEl 14y ago
    wordpress this time
  - andyn 14y ago
    To be fair, Drupal et al. are great for throwing at non-technical users and letting them create their own content.
    - arocks 14y ago
      Absolutely agree. But for an entity like the UK govt having plentiful resources, it would be sheer laziness to go with a solution like Drupal due to ease in initial setup. Besides, most Drupal sites look sort of kludgy in appearance.
      - Pwnguinz 14y ago
        You do realize the "appearance" of a site has nothing to do with the underlying stack, right? A Django site can appear like a Rails site can appear like a Drupal site can appear like a ... You can argue for differences in behaviour, sure; but appearance?
        debacle 14y ago
chaz 14y ago
Great to see. But the headline is misleading. There's some cost savings from software licensing, but it appears that the real savings is the transition from in-person services to web services. The article below cites how the "Digital by Default" initiative (which kicked off gov.uk), is partially responsible for the DVLA cutting 1,213 jobs. These are regional offices where people stand in line to get licenses and renew registrations. http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2189527/dvla-cut-213-jobs-embraces-digital-default-agenda http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2189527/dvla-cut-213-job...
devb0x 14y ago
Great, where's that money gonna go now..
- philjohn 14y ago
  reducing the deficit?
  - Ntrails 14y ago
    Inconceivable.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
npongracic 14y ago
This is great... except it looks like an empty domain page. The design is horrible.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  I liked the old design with search first and foremost. They should bring that back.
  - intranation 14y ago
    It didn't test well: http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/03/why-weve-changed-the-homepage/ http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/03/why-weve-chan...
bfirsh 14y ago
(Reposting a comment from yesterday for background) This is part of a larger government initiative to curb outsourcing of IT projects. Traditionally these sorts of things would be built by large software companies at enormous expense to the taxpayer. Gov.uk has been built by a (relatively) small in-house team, by people who genuinely care about what they are building. They embrace the fact that they are building tools for the good of society rather than just satisfying a contract. Also as a citizen, I love that I can open a pull request on my government's website ( https://github.com/alphagov/calendars/pull/1 https://github.com/alphagov/calendars/pull/1 ). We've got the ball rolling in opening up government data on the internet, but this is a great example of how technology can enable citizens to get involved in government.

100 points by bfirsh 14y ago

Awesome. Except for loading in google analytics. I'd really rather that my interactions with my government were not reported to a US based megacorp.

pbhjpbhj 14y ago
This is pretty important point IMO. Why couldn't they use a local analytics system? Perhaps partner with one of the OS analytics like Piwik? Edit: Um, I just looked, they don't appear to be using GA but a local system already?
- Nursie 14y ago
  I've sent site feedback on this issue now. If I was a twitterer I might tweet about it too, but I'm not so I won't.
- Nursie 14y ago
  Err... Still there when I look at the page source for the front page at https://www.gov.uk https://www.gov.uk
  - andyjohnson0 14y ago
    Edit: Ignore this, its wrong. I was looking in the wrong place. Should have been http://gov.uk http://gov.uk. I've just (17:10 utc) at the source for http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/ http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/ and http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/16/gov-uk-the-start/ http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/16/gov-uk-the-st... there is only one occurrence of the string "google" in the page, and that is is link to a font called 'cabin': <link rel='stylesheet' id='linen-accent-font-style-css' href='http://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Cabin:bold http://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Cabin:bold type='text/css' media='all' /> Doesn't look like they are using google analytics to me, at least not now.
    - Flenser 14y ago
      "We track usage of the site with Google Analytics, using their API heavily to build dashboards" http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/govuk-launch-colophon/ http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/govuk-launch-colophon/
  - FuzzyDunlop 14y ago
    @andyjohnson0 - it's in there, around line 29 in the source. _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-26179049-1']); We're also referring to http://gov.uk http://gov.uk, which is what the OP link refers to, not the OP link itself.
    - andyjohnson0 14y ago
      Thanks! You're right and I'm wrong. I've edited my comment to make this clear.
  - pbhjpbhj 14y ago
    Yep, it's there, forgot to allow scripts (I use NoScript) before using Firebug to check the scripts! Doh!!
- benblack86 14y ago
  Why is it important to use a local system? What is wrong with using the best system for the job wherever in the world it comes from?
  - Nursie 14y ago
    Because it's important that recorded information about my interactions with my government doesn't cross borders and escape from the data protection laws in the UK and the EU. If it was a traditional software system that actually ran on the servers owned by the government then that would be fine. With GA, at the very least Google get to know when I visit the site, and likely which pages I visit, simply through the requests my browser makes. I'm not familiar enough with GA to be able to judge how much else is transmitted to them.
    - sycren 14y ago
      Is there not a separate deal for Governments and Educational Institutes with Google to negate this?
      - Nursie 14y ago
        I honestly have no idea, and the page on cookies does seem to say that they don't allow google to use the data or do much with it, but that just raises further questions as to how they could ever enforce that. I guess I'm just very suspicious when personal data crosses borders. EDIT - also wondering what you mean by a separate deal? If the data goes to the US it goes to the US and is then subject to US laws (and no longer subject to EU/UK protections, deal or no.
      - 7952 14y ago
        It's called the EU safe harbour certification. I'm not sure how rigorous it is.
  - mtgx 14y ago
    Because US can use the Patriot Act to get cloud data about foreign users. That's why.
duiker101 14y ago
Specially considering one of the best analytics services is in the UK, http://bango.com http://bango.com
macavity23 14y ago
Easy to disable in your browser, e.g. by using the Ghostery extension.
ripperdoc 14y ago
For what it's worth, one of Sweden's major newspapers recently did an investigative article about the use of Google Analytics in so many websites belonging to banks, government institutions, political parties, etc. It's now being investigated by privacy authorities. http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/webbsidor-avslojar-ditt-besok-for-google http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/webbsidor-avslojar-ditt-besok-for-g...

cangencer 14y ago

For the curious, here is the tech stack: http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/govuk-launch-colophon/ http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/govuk-launch-colophon/

arocks 14y ago
> The majority of our applications are written in ruby, based on either Ruby on Rails or Sinatra. > A few components are written in Scala and built on top of Play 2.0 > We’re running Mapit from MySociety which is built on top of Django Thank god it is not another Drupal based government site!
- tomekEl 14y ago
  wordpress this time
- andyn 14y ago
  To be fair, Drupal et al. are great for throwing at non-technical users and letting them create their own content.
  - arocks 14y ago
    Absolutely agree. But for an entity like the UK govt having plentiful resources, it would be sheer laziness to go with a solution like Drupal due to ease in initial setup. Besides, most Drupal sites look sort of kludgy in appearance.
    - Pwnguinz 14y ago
      You do realize the "appearance" of a site has nothing to do with the underlying stack, right? A Django site can appear like a Rails site can appear like a Drupal site can appear like a ... You can argue for differences in behaviour, sure; but appearance?
      - debacle 14y ago

chaz 14y ago

Great to see. But the headline is misleading. There's some cost savings from software licensing, but it appears that the real savings is the transition from in-person services to web services. The article below cites how the "Digital by Default" initiative (which kicked off gov.uk), is partially responsible for the DVLA cutting 1,213 jobs. These are regional offices where people stand in line to get licenses and renew registrations. http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2189527/dvla-cut-213-jobs-embraces-digital-default-agenda http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2189527/dvla-cut-213-job...

devb0x 14y ago

Great, where's that money gonna go now..

philjohn 14y ago
reducing the deficit?
- Ntrails 14y ago
  Inconceivable.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

npongracic 14y ago

This is great... except it looks like an empty domain page. The design is horrible.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
I liked the old design with search first and foremost. They should bring that back.
- intranation 14y ago
  It didn't test well: http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/03/why-weve-changed-the-homepage/ http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/03/why-weve-chan...

bfirsh 14y ago

(Reposting a comment from yesterday for background) This is part of a larger government initiative to curb outsourcing of IT projects. Traditionally these sorts of things would be built by large software companies at enormous expense to the taxpayer. Gov.uk has been built by a (relatively) small in-house team, by people who genuinely care about what they are building. They embrace the fact that they are building tools for the good of society rather than just satisfying a contract. Also as a citizen, I love that I can open a pull request on my government's website ( https://github.com/alphagov/calendars/pull/1 https://github.com/alphagov/calendars/pull/1 ). We've got the ball rolling in opening up government data on the internet, but this is a great example of how technology can enable citizens to get involved in government.