5 ms·

You're missing the point. I speak American so I can translate. He's basically saying journalism is a matter of National Security. It needs to be done correctly

by Herring 9mo ago

You're missing the point. I speak American so I can translate. He's basically saying journalism is a matter of National Security. It needs to be done correctly to a high level at all costs, much like education. Google (Silicon Valley) is messing with it.

irishcoffee 9mo ago
Hmm, they're not 'messing with' journalism or national security. They just don't care enough to index denmark journalism. I'm also not sure how denmark can strongarm google et. al. into doing anything at all. Is this incorrect, is there some sort of path forward here for denmark to get what they want?
- anigbrowl 9mo ago
  In practice, that's a form of censorship since it inhibits the ability of people in Denmark to discover domestic news articles through search.
  - polishTar 9mo ago
    But Google is willing to host their content in search, right? They're just not willing to pay since there's no revenue benefit to search hosting it. It seems like Danish media doesn't like this and has chosen to withhold their content, which is their right of course, but it seems strange to contort that into a claim that Google is doing censorship.
  - irishcoffee 9mo ago
    > In practice, that's a form of censorship since it inhibits the ability of people in Denmark to discover domestic news articles through search. No it doesn't. It it inhibits the ability of people in Denmark to discover domestic news articles through GOOGLE search. A subtle but hugely distinct difference, making your point quite moot.
    - anigbrowl 9mo ago
      BS. If the lead provider in the market systematically excludes you from search results it's absolutely going to make it harder for people to discover your content. Kindly note I said 'a form of censorship', miss me with the binary reductionism.
      - irishcoffee 9mo ago
        Google owes Denmark nothing. The entitlement of this whole idea is quite embarrassing.
        Herring 9mo ago
        That attitude "we're gonna make a ton of money and leave you with fascism" is why US tech is not going to last in the EU in the long run. It's unsustainable, like a parasite that kills its host. Basically they're out the moment the EU doesn't need US weapons. Thank Trump for starting this push for independence.
terminalshort 9mo ago
"We need journalism to be done 'correctly' as a matter of national security" sounds like something that the CCP would say.
- Herring 9mo ago
  The facts are clear: Regulate the companies or lose your democracy. FB's impact on democracy has been clear for a long time. This is just the latest - https://www.brusselstimes.com/1916422/us-tech-giants-allying-with-european-far-right-to-strip-back-eu-rules https://www.brusselstimes.com/1916422/us-tech-giants-allying...
  - terminalshort 9mo ago
    So you say we must choose between losing freedom of the press and losing democracy? I say you lose democracy if you lose freedom of the press.
    - camgunz 9mo ago
      There's already boundaries on what the press can and cannot print (libel, etc). Gotta get out of Constitutional Law 101
      - terminalshort 9mo ago
        Right. You must be referring to the libel laws that have specific exemptions for politically powerful or otherwise publicly prominent individuals specifically to avoid intrusion into freedom of the press. And you think that helps your point?
        camgunz 9mo ago
        This isn't true.
  - SllX 9mo ago
    If regulations can legitimately be advocated for, they can be advocated against as well. Facebook wouldn’t have any vested interest in the far left, the far right, the far up or the far down in the EU if the EU wasn’t giving them reasons to take an interest. If the parties in power were really worried that Facebook was going to be the difference-maker, they could undercut the opposition and remove the issue entirely by rolling back their needless regulations and keeping their own desire to overstep their authority and dictate terms to foreign enterprises in check.
broken-kebab 9mo ago
National security could be a valid concern. But Danish media leveraging DK gov't to rollback the reality could never be a success story. Those media are failing not because they are not in the US. Established American media have the same troubles and complains.
- Herring 9mo ago
  I'm ok with it. I think this situation is caused by the Baumol effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect I think it's ok if the highly productive parts of society subsidize the crucial-but-low-productivity areas (healthcare, education, etc). Otherwise this happens https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/teachers-pay.html https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/te... See all the important careers on the bottom right of the first graph. Then your people elect fascists because the media and education systems suck and they don't know any better.
  - petcat 9mo ago
    Why is it the responsibility of American tech companies to subsidize Danish news and media industries? If it's really that important for national security, shouldn't the Danish government be setting up some kind of a state journalism fund to subsidize it themselves? This is just a shakedown of American companies.
    - Herring 9mo ago
      Denmark has one of the most comprehensive media subsidy systems in the world. Google makes a lot of money off monopolizing advertising in Denmark. They are just playing hardball, they don’t think they can be replaced.
      - petcat 9mo ago
        > The publishers say that their industry is bleeding out while they wait for a deal that may never come. It sounds like their government needs to do even more subsidizing if they're really that reliant on US companies to pay their bills.
EA-3167 9mo ago
If it's a matter of national security and compromise isn't possible, I'd encourage Denmark to seek or create alternatives; it's the best they can hope for. Denmark has no obligation to deal with Google and Google has no obligation to deal with Denmark, regardless of the impact those choices have on the other party.
- Herring 9mo ago
  Yeah, and that's what China did to Google in 2010. Widely panned at the time, but perhaps prescient.
hulitu 9mo ago
> He's basically saying journalism is a matter of National Security But it is paid by the CIA and US (_witb CIA_) is our friend. Maybe instead of _saying_ he shall _act_. But yes, i know, he's a politician.
heisenbit 9mo ago
Your making an argument that Denmark should take over control of Silicon Valley as a matter of their national security. I can see a win-win scenario emerging: Denmark controls Silicon Valley saving their journalists (and possibly the world) while Trump gets rid of leftish distractors plus takes control of Greenland getting a infinitly large piece of land with hugh growth potential for golf places once the ice has melted.

by Herring 9mo ago

irishcoffee 9mo ago

Hmm, they're not 'messing with' journalism or national security. They just don't care enough to index denmark journalism. I'm also not sure how denmark can strongarm google et. al. into doing anything at all. Is this incorrect, is there some sort of path forward here for denmark to get what they want?

anigbrowl 9mo ago
In practice, that's a form of censorship since it inhibits the ability of people in Denmark to discover domestic news articles through search.
- polishTar 9mo ago
  But Google is willing to host their content in search, right? They're just not willing to pay since there's no revenue benefit to search hosting it. It seems like Danish media doesn't like this and has chosen to withhold their content, which is their right of course, but it seems strange to contort that into a claim that Google is doing censorship.
- irishcoffee 9mo ago
  > In practice, that's a form of censorship since it inhibits the ability of people in Denmark to discover domestic news articles through search. No it doesn't. It it inhibits the ability of people in Denmark to discover domestic news articles through GOOGLE search. A subtle but hugely distinct difference, making your point quite moot.
  - anigbrowl 9mo ago
    BS. If the lead provider in the market systematically excludes you from search results it's absolutely going to make it harder for people to discover your content. Kindly note I said 'a form of censorship', miss me with the binary reductionism.
    - irishcoffee 9mo ago
      Google owes Denmark nothing. The entitlement of this whole idea is quite embarrassing.
      - Herring 9mo ago
        That attitude "we're gonna make a ton of money and leave you with fascism" is why US tech is not going to last in the EU in the long run. It's unsustainable, like a parasite that kills its host. Basically they're out the moment the EU doesn't need US weapons. Thank Trump for starting this push for independence.

terminalshort 9mo ago

"We need journalism to be done 'correctly' as a matter of national security" sounds like something that the CCP would say.

Herring 9mo ago
The facts are clear: Regulate the companies or lose your democracy. FB's impact on democracy has been clear for a long time. This is just the latest - https://www.brusselstimes.com/1916422/us-tech-giants-allying-with-european-far-right-to-strip-back-eu-rules https://www.brusselstimes.com/1916422/us-tech-giants-allying...
- terminalshort 9mo ago
  So you say we must choose between losing freedom of the press and losing democracy? I say you lose democracy if you lose freedom of the press.
  - camgunz 9mo ago
    There's already boundaries on what the press can and cannot print (libel, etc). Gotta get out of Constitutional Law 101
    - terminalshort 9mo ago
      Right. You must be referring to the libel laws that have specific exemptions for politically powerful or otherwise publicly prominent individuals specifically to avoid intrusion into freedom of the press. And you think that helps your point?
      - camgunz 9mo ago
        This isn't true.
- SllX 9mo ago
  If regulations can legitimately be advocated for, they can be advocated against as well. Facebook wouldn’t have any vested interest in the far left, the far right, the far up or the far down in the EU if the EU wasn’t giving them reasons to take an interest. If the parties in power were really worried that Facebook was going to be the difference-maker, they could undercut the opposition and remove the issue entirely by rolling back their needless regulations and keeping their own desire to overstep their authority and dictate terms to foreign enterprises in check.

broken-kebab 9mo ago

National security could be a valid concern. But Danish media leveraging DK gov't to rollback the reality could never be a success story. Those media are failing not because they are not in the US. Established American media have the same troubles and complains.

Herring 9mo ago
I'm ok with it. I think this situation is caused by the Baumol effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect I think it's ok if the highly productive parts of society subsidize the crucial-but-low-productivity areas (healthcare, education, etc). Otherwise this happens https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/teachers-pay.html https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/te... See all the important careers on the bottom right of the first graph. Then your people elect fascists because the media and education systems suck and they don't know any better.
- petcat 9mo ago
  Why is it the responsibility of American tech companies to subsidize Danish news and media industries? If it's really that important for national security, shouldn't the Danish government be setting up some kind of a state journalism fund to subsidize it themselves? This is just a shakedown of American companies.
  - Herring 9mo ago
    Denmark has one of the most comprehensive media subsidy systems in the world. Google makes a lot of money off monopolizing advertising in Denmark. They are just playing hardball, they don’t think they can be replaced.
    - petcat 9mo ago
      > The publishers say that their industry is bleeding out while they wait for a deal that may never come. It sounds like their government needs to do even more subsidizing if they're really that reliant on US companies to pay their bills.

EA-3167 9mo ago

If it's a matter of national security and compromise isn't possible, I'd encourage Denmark to seek or create alternatives; it's the best they can hope for. Denmark has no obligation to deal with Google and Google has no obligation to deal with Denmark, regardless of the impact those choices have on the other party.

Herring 9mo ago
Yeah, and that's what China did to Google in 2010. Widely panned at the time, but perhaps prescient.

hulitu 9mo ago

> He's basically saying journalism is a matter of National Security But it is paid by the CIA and US (_witb CIA_) is our friend. Maybe instead of _saying_ he shall _act_. But yes, i know, he's a politician.

heisenbit 9mo ago

Your making an argument that Denmark should take over control of Silicon Valley as a matter of their national security. I can see a win-win scenario emerging: Denmark controls Silicon Valley saving their journalists (and possibly the world) while Trump gets rid of leftish distractors plus takes control of Greenland getting a infinitly large piece of land with hugh growth potential for golf places once the ice has melted.