3 ms·

I suspect there is going to be a flood of money in the EU for the creation of replacements for any US-based technology any of the EU countries are dependent upo

by dc396 9mo ago

I suspect there is going to be a flood of money in the EU for the creation of replacements for any US-based technology any of the EU countries are dependent upon (e.g., https://www.joindns4.eu https://www.joindns4.eu). The real questions are whether there will be regulatory reform in the EU to facilitate this and will the money NOT flow to the usual dinosaurs. My impression is that Trump has sufficient pissed off EU governments such that there is some (small) hope for both. EC bureaucrats and MEPs might do well to read https://berthub.eu https://berthub.eu.

reactordev 9mo ago
NATO allies like Germany are sending troops to protect their ally nation along with Denmark. This isn’t a fight Trump is prepared for. If he somehow decides to move forward - we are all going to have to face a hard choice.
- ta20240528 9mo ago
  As a spectator from neither continent, I feel Trump is being a bit of a wuss. He should give into his vices, embrace his inner-Putin and demand a “land-bridge” from Washington State to Alaska. For national security reasons, of course.
- terminalshort 9mo ago
  As much as I think US annexation of Greenland would be the single worst foreign policy move of my lifetime, and maybe in US history, the US military is not the one who isn't prepared for that fight.
  - reactordev 9mo ago
    I never said the military isn’t up for it. I said Trump and his administration aren’t. I know our military is full of ego and testosterone and they’ll fight anyone.
mhitza 9mo ago
My tax money is on the fact that it's going to go again to the dinosaurs. I cannot see them do any quick and adaptive change in the short term. I can see ways that could be really effective, though trying to get a sane word out to these bureaucrats nowadays seems impossible.
bflesch 9mo ago
US tech workers believe their own lies and think they have some sort of magic sauce. For decades they've enjoyed government welfare and US-friendly regulation in many countries, which kept non-US competition small. An influx of non-US talent to US tech companies helped them stay innovative. It is a courtesy that citizens from free countries pay US tech companies a middleman fee over various ways. What US tech workers fail to realize is that - nobody needs Facebook to chat with their family - nobody needs Visa, Paypal or Mastercard to pay in a local shop - nobody needs Netflix subscription to watch a movie created by a non-US entity - nobody needs to pay 50€ per month for privilege of Microsoft spying on your PC - nobody needs their emails/pictures held hostage by Apple or Google - nobody needs Uber in order to order a Taxi So many of these things were done due to convenience and convention, making US tech workers richer and richer. I feel people are realizing what kind of pricks not only the management of US tech companies but also the US tech workers themselves are. Especially on HN these affluent workers from US tech companies run around and parrot the most stupid talking points while thinking their wealth comes from some sort of special skill. We made them rich. They looted our data and poisoned our societies with fake news. They show no respect towards our systems or culture.
- c-linkage 9mo ago
  The problem is that convenience trumps everything. - It is convenient to use Facebook to chat with family - It is convenient to use credit cards to pay the local shop - It is convenient to use Netflix to watch movies - It is convenient to pay a (lower) monthly fee than a (higher) purchase price for MS products - It is convenient to have Apple / Google take care of email - It is convenient to use Uber instead of a taxi The golden cage of convenience is why nothing will change in the US -- we prize convenience above all else.
  - bflesch 9mo ago
    Sorry to be blunt, but it is extremely inconvenient to be force-exposed to internal politics of some religious shithole country which twice votes against their own interests. Where people don't believe in healthcare but accept school shootings. Where society cares about body positivity until Ozempic arrives. A country which talks bigly about geopolitics and ignores agreements they have signed. It is inconvenient to buy a Tesla to help save the planet and then see emerald nepo baby Elon Musk doing hitler salutes, and US citizens downplaying it due to their special understanding of freedom of speech. Or a sweaty Peter Thiel morphing from startup evangelist to religious nut babbling about the antichrist. Or a Jeff Bezos who ships stuff from china to europe being so unhappy with his life that he needs to marry the wife of his neighbor. On top of this there's this still unresolved child sexual abuse scandal that basically implicates all of US upper class including senior leadership of US tech companies, who suddenly come out of retirement like Sergey Brin because they keep being mentioned in the Epstein files. For more and more non-US people the inconvenience of seeing all this outweighs the benefit of being able to use some sort of web application. We have survived before on Nokia phones and TomTom navigation systems, and we'll be able to do so again. US tech companies had US government support and helpful non-US regulatory environment to capture value from our countries. In their core, they are rent-seeking middlemen, parasitic to our economies. The parasite needs a host, but the host can always find a new parasite.
sieep 9mo ago
I just can't see it happening. The United States benefits from decades of compounding advantages compared to the EU: elite research universities, talent pipelines, mature capital markets, and tons of integrated industries (fintech). This is obvious in the recent AI race. EU-headquartered companies remain rare compared to their US/Chinese counterparts.
- ori_b 9mo ago
  The problem: you just listed all of the things under attack by the current administration.
- ta20240528 9mo ago
  All true, but incomplete: you are not discounting these advantages with plain old 'industrial inertia'. Some stuff just went goes to the USA, because it always went to the USA - even though the original advantages are long gone. Screw with it enough and the users (the world) just route around the damage. As the UK can attest after Brexit.
- bflesch 9mo ago
  AI race is a very good example, because Microsoft customers in the EU pay significantly increased Microsoft license fees so that Microsoft can give that money to OpenAI. Without Microsoft having non-US customers as a cash cow the AI valuations would not be anywhere where they are today. In return non-US Microsoft customers get a useless copilot slapped into all UIs and have to throw away all their computers and buy new ones just because of Windows 11 software update. The other things you list are weak arguments: - With mature capital markets you mean they plan to dismantle the Fed autonomy? Did you see the powell video? - Concerning "elite research universities": are you aware that they significantly cut research funding for US universities, prompting many researchers to move outside the country? - With talent pipeline do you mean top graduates from EU and other non-US regions who bring innovation to US tech companies? I think the delusion among US tech workers is immense. The moat is not that big. If other countries stop sharing your idea of copyright and software patents there is not much you can do.
mixmastamyk 9mo ago
Investment would be great, but the tech already exists. From Suse linux, hetzner, fairphone, to LibreOffice and OnlyOffice. One simply needs to start using them. Investment can be focused on integration work and bug fixing.

by dc396 9mo ago

reactordev 9mo ago

NATO allies like Germany are sending troops to protect their ally nation along with Denmark. This isn’t a fight Trump is prepared for. If he somehow decides to move forward - we are all going to have to face a hard choice.

ta20240528 9mo ago
As a spectator from neither continent, I feel Trump is being a bit of a wuss. He should give into his vices, embrace his inner-Putin and demand a “land-bridge” from Washington State to Alaska. For national security reasons, of course.
terminalshort 9mo ago
As much as I think US annexation of Greenland would be the single worst foreign policy move of my lifetime, and maybe in US history, the US military is not the one who isn't prepared for that fight.
- reactordev 9mo ago
  I never said the military isn’t up for it. I said Trump and his administration aren’t. I know our military is full of ego and testosterone and they’ll fight anyone.

mhitza 9mo ago

My tax money is on the fact that it's going to go again to the dinosaurs. I cannot see them do any quick and adaptive change in the short term. I can see ways that could be really effective, though trying to get a sane word out to these bureaucrats nowadays seems impossible.

bflesch 9mo ago

US tech workers believe their own lies and think they have some sort of magic sauce. For decades they've enjoyed government welfare and US-friendly regulation in many countries, which kept non-US competition small. An influx of non-US talent to US tech companies helped them stay innovative. It is a courtesy that citizens from free countries pay US tech companies a middleman fee over various ways. What US tech workers fail to realize is that - nobody needs Facebook to chat with their family - nobody needs Visa, Paypal or Mastercard to pay in a local shop - nobody needs Netflix subscription to watch a movie created by a non-US entity - nobody needs to pay 50€ per month for privilege of Microsoft spying on your PC - nobody needs their emails/pictures held hostage by Apple or Google - nobody needs Uber in order to order a Taxi So many of these things were done due to convenience and convention, making US tech workers richer and richer. I feel people are realizing what kind of pricks not only the management of US tech companies but also the US tech workers themselves are. Especially on HN these affluent workers from US tech companies run around and parrot the most stupid talking points while thinking their wealth comes from some sort of special skill. We made them rich. They looted our data and poisoned our societies with fake news. They show no respect towards our systems or culture.

c-linkage 9mo ago
The problem is that convenience trumps everything. - It is convenient to use Facebook to chat with family - It is convenient to use credit cards to pay the local shop - It is convenient to use Netflix to watch movies - It is convenient to pay a (lower) monthly fee than a (higher) purchase price for MS products - It is convenient to have Apple / Google take care of email - It is convenient to use Uber instead of a taxi The golden cage of convenience is why nothing will change in the US -- we prize convenience above all else.
- bflesch 9mo ago
  Sorry to be blunt, but it is extremely inconvenient to be force-exposed to internal politics of some religious shithole country which twice votes against their own interests. Where people don't believe in healthcare but accept school shootings. Where society cares about body positivity until Ozempic arrives. A country which talks bigly about geopolitics and ignores agreements they have signed. It is inconvenient to buy a Tesla to help save the planet and then see emerald nepo baby Elon Musk doing hitler salutes, and US citizens downplaying it due to their special understanding of freedom of speech. Or a sweaty Peter Thiel morphing from startup evangelist to religious nut babbling about the antichrist. Or a Jeff Bezos who ships stuff from china to europe being so unhappy with his life that he needs to marry the wife of his neighbor. On top of this there's this still unresolved child sexual abuse scandal that basically implicates all of US upper class including senior leadership of US tech companies, who suddenly come out of retirement like Sergey Brin because they keep being mentioned in the Epstein files. For more and more non-US people the inconvenience of seeing all this outweighs the benefit of being able to use some sort of web application. We have survived before on Nokia phones and TomTom navigation systems, and we'll be able to do so again. US tech companies had US government support and helpful non-US regulatory environment to capture value from our countries. In their core, they are rent-seeking middlemen, parasitic to our economies. The parasite needs a host, but the host can always find a new parasite.

sieep 9mo ago

I just can't see it happening. The United States benefits from decades of compounding advantages compared to the EU: elite research universities, talent pipelines, mature capital markets, and tons of integrated industries (fintech). This is obvious in the recent AI race. EU-headquartered companies remain rare compared to their US/Chinese counterparts.

ori_b 9mo ago
The problem: you just listed all of the things under attack by the current administration.
ta20240528 9mo ago
All true, but incomplete: you are not discounting these advantages with plain old 'industrial inertia'. Some stuff just went goes to the USA, because it always went to the USA - even though the original advantages are long gone. Screw with it enough and the users (the world) just route around the damage. As the UK can attest after Brexit.
bflesch 9mo ago
AI race is a very good example, because Microsoft customers in the EU pay significantly increased Microsoft license fees so that Microsoft can give that money to OpenAI. Without Microsoft having non-US customers as a cash cow the AI valuations would not be anywhere where they are today. In return non-US Microsoft customers get a useless copilot slapped into all UIs and have to throw away all their computers and buy new ones just because of Windows 11 software update. The other things you list are weak arguments: - With mature capital markets you mean they plan to dismantle the Fed autonomy? Did you see the powell video? - Concerning "elite research universities": are you aware that they significantly cut research funding for US universities, prompting many researchers to move outside the country? - With talent pipeline do you mean top graduates from EU and other non-US regions who bring innovation to US tech companies? I think the delusion among US tech workers is immense. The moat is not that big. If other countries stop sharing your idea of copyright and software patents there is not much you can do.

mixmastamyk 9mo ago

Investment would be great, but the tech already exists. From Suse linux, hetzner, fairphone, to LibreOffice and OnlyOffice. One simply needs to start using them. Investment can be focused on integration work and bug fixing.