4 ms·

> they arguably treat their suppliers relatively poorly compared to the Gold standard like Costco. I’m not saying you’re wrong but you’re previous paragraph so

> they arguably treat their suppliers relatively poorly compared to the Gold standard like Costco. I’m not saying you’re wrong but you’re previous paragraph sounding like you were wondering if it was the case vs. here you’re saying it’s known. Is this all true? Do they have a reputation for hammering their suppliers?

xp84 10mo ago
Apple is so notoriously ravenous for profit margin that they can’t not be that way.
- Forgeties79 10mo ago
  It felt like a more confident statement and I was legitimately asking. I have little love for Apple. Ditched my Mac Studio earlier this year for a Linux only build after 20 years of being on Macs. I say this because I think folks think I am trying to sealion/“just ask questions:tm:” or some nonsense, when I am legitimately asking if this is a documented practice and what the extent is. I am not finding it easy to find info on this.
  - xp84 10mo ago
    Totally fair question. Being fully transparent, I'm exclusively extrapolating based solely on their publicly-known behavior (e.g. the way they deal with their developers on the App Store), but am not a primary source on their hardware component vendor relationships myself.
bigyabai 10mo ago
Apple dealt exclusively with Chinese labor prices until they were directly threatened by the POTUS. You tell me.
- yurishimo 10mo ago
  I got a bridge to sell you if you think that Apple is going to bring any of their manufacturing to the US...
  - bigyabai 10mo ago
    I've seen the leaked BOMs, I'm not dumb enough to think that Americans can match it.
    - savorypiano 10mo ago
      Where do you find the leaked BOMs?
      - bigyabai 10mo ago
        RedNote usually, before it's deleted.
    - cindyllm 10mo ago
      [dead]
  - godzillabrennus 10mo ago
    It would be a $6000 phone if they built it in America.
    - makapuf 10mo ago
      Would be Interesting to know if it really would or not. Especially relative to their margins.
      - bluGill 10mo ago
        That depends on too many factors. Moving all production to the US would greatly reduce prices, since it costs a lot of money to setup a factory, but you amortize that over everything it produces. I don't know how the iphone is produced in China, but I have to believe it is highly automated as well. However moving a factory takes months (at best, China may not allow exporting it at all), and in those months Apply wouldn't be making any iphones, so to do production in the US requires building an all new factory which is going to be expensive. You can buy modern CPUs made in Iowa - at about $60,000 each. You can buy one from an intel fab (I'm not sure where they are) for under $1000 that is likely better. the Iowa made CPU would be a one-off made under license from Intel. The companies that do this made just enough to prove they can in case Intel fabs are bombed. (I assume this means that you can't actually buy such a CPU if you tried, but they do make them and that is about the cost they would have to charge to break even)
dwaite 10mo ago
I imagine it is like becoming a supplier for McDonalds. The penalties for not delivering on timelines and production goals, and the scale being requested can mean substantial changes to your business. I remember a friend whose company was in talks with Apple telling me that there was some sense of relief when the deal fell through, just because of how much stress and risk and change the deal would entail. However, a missing component could put tens of billions of dollars of revenue on the line for Apple. It is easier to say that any supplier Apple picks has to then quickly grow to the scale and process needed - and failing to do that successfully could very well be a fatal slip for the supplier. Even in the iPod days, Apple often would invest in building out the additional capacity (factories) to meet their projected demand, and have a period of exclusivity as well. This meant that as MP3 player demand scaled up, they also wound up locking up production for the micro HDD and flash ram that competitors would need.

xp84 10mo ago

Apple is so notoriously ravenous for profit margin that they can’t not be that way.

Forgeties79 10mo ago
It felt like a more confident statement and I was legitimately asking. I have little love for Apple. Ditched my Mac Studio earlier this year for a Linux only build after 20 years of being on Macs. I say this because I think folks think I am trying to sealion/“just ask questions:tm:” or some nonsense, when I am legitimately asking if this is a documented practice and what the extent is. I am not finding it easy to find info on this.
- xp84 10mo ago
  Totally fair question. Being fully transparent, I'm exclusively extrapolating based solely on their publicly-known behavior (e.g. the way they deal with their developers on the App Store), but am not a primary source on their hardware component vendor relationships myself.

bigyabai 10mo ago

Apple dealt exclusively with Chinese labor prices until they were directly threatened by the POTUS. You tell me.

yurishimo 10mo ago
I got a bridge to sell you if you think that Apple is going to bring any of their manufacturing to the US...
- bigyabai 10mo ago
  I've seen the leaked BOMs, I'm not dumb enough to think that Americans can match it.
  - savorypiano 10mo ago
    Where do you find the leaked BOMs?
    - bigyabai 10mo ago
      RedNote usually, before it's deleted.
  - cindyllm 10mo ago
    [dead]
- godzillabrennus 10mo ago
  It would be a $6000 phone if they built it in America.
  - makapuf 10mo ago
    Would be Interesting to know if it really would or not. Especially relative to their margins.
    - bluGill 10mo ago
      That depends on too many factors. Moving all production to the US would greatly reduce prices, since it costs a lot of money to setup a factory, but you amortize that over everything it produces. I don't know how the iphone is produced in China, but I have to believe it is highly automated as well. However moving a factory takes months (at best, China may not allow exporting it at all), and in those months Apply wouldn't be making any iphones, so to do production in the US requires building an all new factory which is going to be expensive. You can buy modern CPUs made in Iowa - at about $60,000 each. You can buy one from an intel fab (I'm not sure where they are) for under $1000 that is likely better. the Iowa made CPU would be a one-off made under license from Intel. The companies that do this made just enough to prove they can in case Intel fabs are bombed. (I assume this means that you can't actually buy such a CPU if you tried, but they do make them and that is about the cost they would have to charge to break even)

dwaite 10mo ago

I imagine it is like becoming a supplier for McDonalds. The penalties for not delivering on timelines and production goals, and the scale being requested can mean substantial changes to your business. I remember a friend whose company was in talks with Apple telling me that there was some sense of relief when the deal fell through, just because of how much stress and risk and change the deal would entail. However, a missing component could put tens of billions of dollars of revenue on the line for Apple. It is easier to say that any supplier Apple picks has to then quickly grow to the scale and process needed - and failing to do that successfully could very well be a fatal slip for the supplier. Even in the iPod days, Apple often would invest in building out the additional capacity (factories) to meet their projected demand, and have a period of exclusivity as well. This meant that as MP3 player demand scaled up, they also wound up locking up production for the micro HDD and flash ram that competitors would need.