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Mind you, that opinion isn't universal. For programmer and programmer-adjacent technically minded individuals, sure, but there are still places where a pdf for

by fragmede 10mo ago

Mind you, that opinion isn't universal. For programmer and programmer-adjacent technically minded individuals, sure, but there are still places where a pdf for a resume over docx is considered "weird". For those in that bubble, which ostensibly this product targets, md files are what hackers who are going to steal my data use.

burkaman 10mo ago
Yeah I guess I meant specifically for the population that uses LLMs enough to know what skills are.
reactordev 10mo ago
This is why I use signed PDF’s. If a recruiter or manager asks for a docx, I move on. You’re only going to ever get a read only version.
- w-ll 10mo ago
  Care to share your resume? I've built PDF scanning tech before the rise of llms, OCR at the very least will defeat this.
  - jagged-chisel 10mo ago
    Are you talking about defeating digital signatures?
  - reactordev 10mo ago
    Mark-I eyeball is totally capable.
- pluralmonad 10mo ago
  Read-only... Until I ctrl-p in Firefox.
  - reactordev 10mo ago
    You can’t open it in a browser. It requires a proper PDF viewer.
- jkaplowitz 10mo ago
  All PDF security can be stripped by freely available software in ways that allow subsequent modifications without restriction, except the kind of PDF security that requires an unavailable password to decrypt to view, but in that case viewing isn’t possible either. Subsequent modifications would of course invalidate any digital signature you’ve applied, but that only matters if the recipient cares about your digital signature remaining valid. Put another way, there’s no such thing as a true read-only PDF if the software necessary to circumvent the other PDF security restrictions is available on the recipient’s computer and if preserving the validity of your digital signature is not considered important. But sure, it’s very possible to distribute a PDF that’s a lot more annoying to modify than your private source format. No disagreement there.
  - reactordev 10mo ago
    You think a recruiter will be a forensic security researcher? Having document level digital signature is enough for 99% of use cases. Most software that a consumer would have respects the signature and prevents any modifications. Sure, you could manually edit the PDF to remove the document signature security and hope that the embedded JavaScript check doesn’t execute…
    - jkaplowitz 10mo ago
      Nothing that hard. When I had a technically similar need (for non-shady purposes unrelated to recruiting) I found easy installable free GUI software for Windows that worked just fine with a simple Google search. No specialist expertise needed. Yes, most consumer software does respect what you say. But it’s easy for a minimally motivated consumer to obtain and use software which doesn’t. However, the context we were discussing was neither a consumer nor a forensic security researcher, but a recruiter trying to do shady things with a resume. I don't expect them to be a specialist, but I do expect them to be able either to get the kind of software I just described with a security stripping feature, or else to have access to third-party software specifically targeting the recruiter market that will do the shady things - including to digitally signed PDFs like yours - without them having to know how it works.
  - 10mo ago
- ajxs 10mo ago
  What is this measure defending against (other than getting a job)? The recruiter can still extract the information in your signed PDF, and send their own marked-up version to the client in whatever format they like. Their request for a Word document is just to make that process easier. Many large companies even mandate that recruitment agencies strip all personally-identifiable information out of candidates' resumes[1], to eliminate the possibility of bias. 1: I wish they didn't, because my Github is way more interesting than my professional experience.

burkaman 10mo ago

Yeah I guess I meant specifically for the population that uses LLMs enough to know what skills are.

reactordev 10mo ago

This is why I use signed PDF’s. If a recruiter or manager asks for a docx, I move on. You’re only going to ever get a read only version.

w-ll 10mo ago
Care to share your resume? I've built PDF scanning tech before the rise of llms, OCR at the very least will defeat this.
- jagged-chisel 10mo ago
  Are you talking about defeating digital signatures?
- reactordev 10mo ago
  Mark-I eyeball is totally capable.
pluralmonad 10mo ago
Read-only... Until I ctrl-p in Firefox.
- reactordev 10mo ago
  You can’t open it in a browser. It requires a proper PDF viewer.
jkaplowitz 10mo ago
All PDF security can be stripped by freely available software in ways that allow subsequent modifications without restriction, except the kind of PDF security that requires an unavailable password to decrypt to view, but in that case viewing isn’t possible either. Subsequent modifications would of course invalidate any digital signature you’ve applied, but that only matters if the recipient cares about your digital signature remaining valid. Put another way, there’s no such thing as a true read-only PDF if the software necessary to circumvent the other PDF security restrictions is available on the recipient’s computer and if preserving the validity of your digital signature is not considered important. But sure, it’s very possible to distribute a PDF that’s a lot more annoying to modify than your private source format. No disagreement there.
- reactordev 10mo ago
  You think a recruiter will be a forensic security researcher? Having document level digital signature is enough for 99% of use cases. Most software that a consumer would have respects the signature and prevents any modifications. Sure, you could manually edit the PDF to remove the document signature security and hope that the embedded JavaScript check doesn’t execute…
  - jkaplowitz 10mo ago
    Nothing that hard. When I had a technically similar need (for non-shady purposes unrelated to recruiting) I found easy installable free GUI software for Windows that worked just fine with a simple Google search. No specialist expertise needed. Yes, most consumer software does respect what you say. But it’s easy for a minimally motivated consumer to obtain and use software which doesn’t. However, the context we were discussing was neither a consumer nor a forensic security researcher, but a recruiter trying to do shady things with a resume. I don't expect them to be a specialist, but I do expect them to be able either to get the kind of software I just described with a security stripping feature, or else to have access to third-party software specifically targeting the recruiter market that will do the shady things - including to digitally signed PDFs like yours - without them having to know how it works.
- 10mo ago
ajxs 10mo ago
What is this measure defending against (other than getting a job)? The recruiter can still extract the information in your signed PDF, and send their own marked-up version to the client in whatever format they like. Their request for a Word document is just to make that process easier. Many large companies even mandate that recruitment agencies strip all personally-identifiable information out of candidates' resumes[1], to eliminate the possibility of bias. 1: I wish they didn't, because my Github is way more interesting than my professional experience.