2 ms·

I think the best outcome would really be the US' current allies are just waiting until trump goes and he doesn't break too much and the new person goes back to

I think the best outcome would really be the US' current allies are just waiting until trump goes and he doesn't break too much and the new person goes back to a more stable posture. It's probably a more realistic outcome however is that no one really trusts the US any more and trump has just hastened the decline as the EU looks inward more, and other areas move more quickly to get support from china.

troyvit 9mo ago
I hope they are more long-sighted than that. They did the same thing with Bush II's "with us or against us" rhetoric and actions. Appease the POTUS while he's there and hope the next one is a little better. Obama was more conciliatory to our allies' needs, but the cycle has been like this since 2001. The US is getting less stable instead of more stable, so I don't know what Europe is hoping for.
- palata 9mo ago
  > They did the same thing with Bush II's "with us or against us" I don't think that Bush II threatened to invade Europe, and that Europe responded by preparing for an invasion, though.
  - troyvit 9mo ago
    Yeah I agree. It's been a progression. There are tik-toks going around liberal circles pining for the days of Bush II even.
- fifilura 9mo ago
  > I hope they are more long-sighted than that. If it happened once it may very well happen again. Things will change after this.
- xethos 9mo ago
  > the cycle has been like this since 2001 > The US is getting less stable instead of more stable > I hope they are more long-sighted than that Quoting you out of order, but when one puts all three together what do you believe the long-term plan should be? America is, by your own admission, becoming less stable, and currently threatening annexation of multiple countries. What exactly do you think "less stable" looks like after this?
LeChuck 9mo ago
> I think the best outcome would really be the US' current allies are just waiting until trump goes and he doesn't break too much and the new person goes back to a more stable posture. I’m afraid that ship has sailed. This was the general feeling during Bidens’ presidency. After Trump’s reelection, it’s clear that the USA is permanently one swing state away from electing a tyrant. I think the rest of the world will need to see a widely held conviction of never again and fundamental changes to America’s democratic system, before trust can be rebuilt.
disgruntledphd2 9mo ago
> I think the best outcome would really be the US' current allies are just waiting until trump goes and he doesn't break too much and the new person goes back to a more stable posture. This seems to be what most of the EU leaders think. However, it's not plausible that Trump is an aberration, given that he's been elected twice. Europe/EU/the West need to understand that the US populace doesn't seem to care about their alliances any more. And this is fine, that's their total democratic right, but there's going to be really large downstream consequences over time.

troyvit 9mo ago

I hope they are more long-sighted than that. They did the same thing with Bush II's "with us or against us" rhetoric and actions. Appease the POTUS while he's there and hope the next one is a little better. Obama was more conciliatory to our allies' needs, but the cycle has been like this since 2001. The US is getting less stable instead of more stable, so I don't know what Europe is hoping for.

palata 9mo ago
> They did the same thing with Bush II's "with us or against us" I don't think that Bush II threatened to invade Europe, and that Europe responded by preparing for an invasion, though.
- troyvit 9mo ago
  Yeah I agree. It's been a progression. There are tik-toks going around liberal circles pining for the days of Bush II even.
fifilura 9mo ago
> I hope they are more long-sighted than that. If it happened once it may very well happen again. Things will change after this.
xethos 9mo ago
> the cycle has been like this since 2001 > The US is getting less stable instead of more stable > I hope they are more long-sighted than that Quoting you out of order, but when one puts all three together what do you believe the long-term plan should be? America is, by your own admission, becoming less stable, and currently threatening annexation of multiple countries. What exactly do you think "less stable" looks like after this?

LeChuck 9mo ago

> I think the best outcome would really be the US' current allies are just waiting until trump goes and he doesn't break too much and the new person goes back to a more stable posture. I’m afraid that ship has sailed. This was the general feeling during Bidens’ presidency. After Trump’s reelection, it’s clear that the USA is permanently one swing state away from electing a tyrant. I think the rest of the world will need to see a widely held conviction of never again and fundamental changes to America’s democratic system, before trust can be rebuilt.

disgruntledphd2 9mo ago

> I think the best outcome would really be the US' current allies are just waiting until trump goes and he doesn't break too much and the new person goes back to a more stable posture. This seems to be what most of the EU leaders think. However, it's not plausible that Trump is an aberration, given that he's been elected twice. Europe/EU/the West need to understand that the US populace doesn't seem to care about their alliances any more. And this is fine, that's their total democratic right, but there's going to be really large downstream consequences over time.